Mini Classifieds

turbo 4 cyl and aod trans
Date: 12/14/2019 04:55 pm
79 pinto front,rear alum bumpers

Date: 07/17/2018 09:49 pm
Wanted Pinto Fiberglass Body Parts
Date: 05/19/2018 04:56 pm
74 Wagon Interior
Date: 01/22/2017 06:38 pm
t-5 2.3 trans and new flywheel cluch and pressure plate though out bearing for sale
Date: 09/09/2018 03:22 pm
ENGINE COMPLETE 1971 PINTO
Date: 12/28/2017 03:55 pm
Lower Alternator bracket
Date: 08/26/2017 05:11 pm
77 pinto cruz. wagon
Date: 06/15/2017 09:18 pm
door sills
Date: 03/14/2020 03:20 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
  • Total Members: 7,892
  • Latest: Tanar_D
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,565
  • Total Topics: 16,275
  • Online today: 537
  • Online ever: 1,681 (March 09, 2025, 10:00:10 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 210
  • Total: 210
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Tulsa OK. roll call!!! Who is coming???

Started by Pintony, May 30, 2008, 11:18:43 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Scott Hamilton

Yup, Have the banner- all the cafe press stuff and Bill overnighted the stickers to my hotel ...

We are on the road right now, (Verizon Broadband card w/laptop) looking to be in Tulsa in or around 7:30- 8 PM. Using GPS to navigate to hotel... In our white excursion w/fordpinto plates...

dga57- live in Huntsville, Alabama area-- will be taking the family out to eat just after check-in--

If anyone need to reach me- 256-382-1593

we are almost there...
Yellow 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
Green 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
White 73, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
The Lemon, the Lime and the Coconut, :)

Original74

Not going to fold that banner Scott? I consider myself spanked once again! LOL

I just PM'ed Bill about the banner, looks like you have it, so I guess Bill doesn't need to ship it, sweet.

See you tomorrow,

Dave
Dave Herbeck- Missing from us... He will always be with us

1974 Sedan, 'Geraldine', 45,000 miles, orange and white, show car.
1976 Runabout, project.
1979 Sedan, 'Jade', 429 miles, show car, really needs to be in a museum. I am building him one!
1979 Runabout, light blue, 39,000 miles, daily driver

Scott Hamilton

I'm Back in Alabama and planning on leaving Wednesday for Tulsa.

I Left the PCCA window stickers with Bill so I won't have them with me when I arrive on Thursday unless Bill can ship them to my hotel ahead of my arrival..  I will have the PCCA Banner (rolled up), Yard Sign, and me..

Looking forward to meeting the central crowd...  I think Stephanie is having fun taking and posting pictures of the cars at the meets...

See ya soon!
Yellow 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
Green 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
White 73, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
The Lemon, the Lime and the Coconut, :)

Original74

Chris,

I sold a house and lost my ISP who was hosting it. I have alternate plans to get it hosted and just haven't taken the time to get it back up. Thanks for asking.

Dave
Dave Herbeck- Missing from us... He will always be with us

1974 Sedan, 'Geraldine', 45,000 miles, orange and white, show car.
1976 Runabout, project.
1979 Sedan, 'Jade', 429 miles, show car, really needs to be in a museum. I am building him one!
1979 Runabout, light blue, 39,000 miles, daily driver

popbumper

Dave:

  BTW - is "www.classicpinto.com" defunct? I can't seem to find it.

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

popbumper

Dave:

  So on Saturday, all that is available are the races, drags, or the Pinto group, yes? No car show/gatherings otherwise? If I brought the family, I was hoping to see some opther "collections" of cars.

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

Original74

Chris,

Just want to ensure you understand the car show associated with the All Ford Show is on Sunday. Better than that though, you will have the opportunity to see at least 8 Pinto's at the hang out on Saturday.

Dave
Dave Herbeck- Missing from us... He will always be with us

1974 Sedan, 'Geraldine', 45,000 miles, orange and white, show car.
1976 Runabout, project.
1979 Sedan, 'Jade', 429 miles, show car, really needs to be in a museum. I am building him one!
1979 Runabout, light blue, 39,000 miles, daily driver

popbumper

1) YES
2) NO

Will be driving up from Dallas - hope to be ther Friday night, and spend the day with the group Saturday, catch the car show, etc. and head back Sat. night. Might have the wife and boy in tow, might not - we'll see. Looking forward to making acquaintances!

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

dga57

Scott,
I'm really looking forward to meeting you and it appears that we'll both be in Carlisle and Tulsa at approximately the same times.  My family and I will be arriving in Tulsa sometime Thursday afternoon also, so maybe we can all get together for dinner or something.
Whereabouts in Alabama do you live?  My wife was born in Birmingham and she still has an aunt and uncle living in Bessemer. 
See you soon!
Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Original74

Tulsa is about 100 miles NE of Norman. This is the second year we have held the Central Regional Meet in Tulsa. The meet can move to any other city at any time.

Dave
Dave Herbeck- Missing from us... He will always be with us

1974 Sedan, 'Geraldine', 45,000 miles, orange and white, show car.
1976 Runabout, project.
1979 Sedan, 'Jade', 429 miles, show car, really needs to be in a museum. I am building him one!
1979 Runabout, light blue, 39,000 miles, daily driver

dholvrsn

How far is Tulsa from Norman and do you meet there every year?
'80 MPG Pony, '80-'92
'79 porthole wagon, '06-on
'80 trunk model. '17-on
-----
'98 Dodge Ram 1500
'95 Buick Riviera
'63 Studebaker Champ
'57 Studebaker Silver Hawk
'51 Studebaker Commander Starlight
'47 Studebaker Champion
'41 Studebaker Commander Land Cruiser

FCANON

I'm juiced.. I can't wait to head out....

:)

FrankBoss
www.pintoworks.com   www.tirestopinc.com
www.stophumpingmytown.com
www.FrankBoss.com

Scott Hamilton

Driving in on Thursday afternoon with the family, staying at the Sleep Inn & Suites Central on I-44. Will be leaving out early Sunday morning- starting a new Job on Monday back in Alabama...  I will be Pintoless this trip- but want to throw my hat in the secret 'Jade' juant as well.. Love to finally set my eyes on that fantastic ride.  Spoke with Dave on the Phone this afternoon (thanks for calling Dave) Looking forward to the swapmeet on Saturday and the PCCA get together that night, the rest I will 'wing' with the family in tow...

We have a standing rule at our house, if the Kids see a Pinto on the road or anywhere- they get a free ticket to toys-r-us for one toy of their choosing-- needless to say they are exited about the meet!... Hint, Hint...

Looking forward to meeting many for the first time... & John- (tulsaturbo) we need to talk about web stuff!

Whee!
Yellow 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
Green 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
White 73, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
The Lemon, the Lime and the Coconut, :)

dga57

Dave,

Sounds fantastic!  I sure wish I could be there for the show on Sunday but I'll be tied up in Dallas until mid-afternoon.  Like I told you when I first joined the PCCA, Geraldine is the car I would have bought new if price had not been a consideration back in 1974.  After all, I was only sixteen at the time and that $72 per month car payment for 36 months seemed overwhelming!  I'm also looking forward to seeing Jade... it's been 30 years since I've seen a Pinto with so few miles!  Maybe seeing your cars will give my 15-year-old son a little better idea of what I'm trying to make out of my '72!  He thinks it's the ugliest car in the world right now!  I'm only really aiming for a nice driver but it will definitely look a lot better when it's finished than it does at the moment. LOL  I'm taking him to Carlisle PA with me next weekend so he'll get to see a few there too. 

We weren't planning to stay at the "hang out" anyway - my wife's camping days ended when she suffered a stoke last year.  I just couldn't imagine being that close by and not trying to make contact with you and anyone else who might happen to be there.  I'm sure all the folks coming from around the country that weekend will truly appreciate your generous hospitality, as do I, and I thank you in advance for letting us take a peek at your Pintos.  I'll call you Thursday (the 12th) afternoon when we get into the Tulsa area.

Thanks again,
Dwayne :smile:

Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Original74

Dwayne,

I will be getting the tent set up either Thursday evening or Friday morning early. I will be available any time Thursday after 4PM to met up with you somewhere. I am not spending the night at the hang out on Thursday night, but can meet you and would be happy to show you Geraldine and Jade.

My cell is 918-408-6976. Call any time.

Dave
Dave Herbeck- Missing from us... He will always be with us

1974 Sedan, 'Geraldine', 45,000 miles, orange and white, show car.
1976 Runabout, project.
1979 Sedan, 'Jade', 429 miles, show car, really needs to be in a museum. I am building him one!
1979 Runabout, light blue, 39,000 miles, daily driver

Pintaro

I will be there and everyone definatly PRE-REGISTER!!!
                                                          Pintaro

pintowes

i will be at hallet all three days and at the car show spectating.78 cruzin wagon isn't show worthy yet though.hope to see lots of pintos. wes

dga57

Geez... so close and yet so far away!!!  I'll be within "spittin' distance" the first part of the week but have committments in Dallas for Friday thru Sunday!  IF anyone is going to be there Thursday evening and there'll be any Pintos to see, I'll head in that direction Thursday and then leave from Tulsa to go to Dallas on Friday.  Dave seems open to people showing up anytime starting Thursday evening so maybe we can connect with him, even if no one else is there yet.  It would be worth the drive if he'd let me take a peek at Geraldine and Jade!
Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

High_Horse

I will be there...........Yes...Yes




                                                                                                        High_Horse
Started with a Bobcat wagon. Then a Cruising wagon. Now a Chocolate brown 77 wagon. I will enjoy this car for a long time. I'm in. High_Horse



Welcome to FordPinto.com, home of the PCCA - the Pinto Car Club of America. Founded in 1999 with the goal of creating a dedicated meeting place with strong appeal to Ford Pinto and Mercury Bobcat owners and enthusiasts across all generations. Each day new members join the PCCA family expanding the knowledge base and enhancing our community.


Our site offers extensive information, technical and historic as well as live classifieds ads to find what you are looking for. One of our main goals is to save you time, money and a lot of hassle when searching for information about our cars. Not a member of our family yet? Please feel free to sign up
 for a free account and join the informative discussions in the forums when looking for that tidbit of info you seek. We, the members of FordPinto.com look forward to welcoming you to our family and hearing from you. We are here to assist in any way we can.


FordPinto.com supports the development of parts resources or parts re-manufacturing as opportunities arise. We promote the efforts of individuals and companies that endeavor to re-manufacture, sell, or otherwise distribute additional resources for the Ford Pinto or Mercury Bobcat.

As always, we at FordPinto.com encourage comments and suggestions on how we may be able to improve your experience with us. We take what our members have to say very seriously. Don't hesitate to submit your ideas and feedback.

management@fordpinto.com