Mini Classifieds

WANTED: Skinny Rear Bumper w/o guards for '71 or '72 Pinto Coupe
Date: 04/24/2018 11:45 am
79-80 full glass hatch

Date: 01/04/2017 04:04 am
Intake, Head, and valve cover gasket sets

Date: 12/10/2017 01:14 pm
Misc pinto parts 71-73 2.0
Date: 05/05/2020 11:56 pm
LOOKING for INTERIOR PARTS, MIRRORS & A HOOD LATCH
Date: 04/06/2017 12:13 am
77 Cruising wagon Rear cargo light
Date: 10/02/2017 02:16 pm
2.8 Engine mount brackets
Date: 12/28/2016 11:42 am
(3) 1980 Ford Pinto Station Wagon Projects

Date: 03/15/2023 02:16 pm
oldskool787
Date: 02/12/2017 12:42 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
  • Total Members: 7,892
  • Latest: Tanar_D
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,565
  • Total Topics: 16,275
  • Online today: 537
  • Online ever: 1,681 (March 09, 2025, 10:00:10 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 185
  • Total: 185
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

New Site, Thank YOU!

Started by Scott Hamilton, September 13, 2007, 07:35:38 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

r4pinto

The site looks awesome. I have been gone from the site for a while since I have been focusing on my 85 Omni GLH Turbo, but since it now needs a turbo replacement I'm shifting back to my 77 Pinto. I haven't done much with it since Carlisle 06, but with the way the site seems it should be easier for me to get more done to her.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

Original74

I have to read 7500 more posts from Pintony? Hehe
Dave Herbeck- Missing from us... He will always be with us

1974 Sedan, 'Geraldine', 45,000 miles, orange and white, show car.
1976 Runabout, project.
1979 Sedan, 'Jade', 429 miles, show car, really needs to be in a museum. I am building him one!
1979 Runabout, light blue, 39,000 miles, daily driver

Pintopower

I love the new look Scott! Has nothing to do with one of my cars being on the banner at all.....This site looks classy and professional. Any one new to the Pinto world would be amazed of such an elaborate and attractive website. Great work!
I have many Pintos, I like them....
#1. 1979 Wagon V6 Restored
#2. 1977 Wagon V6 Restored
#3. 1980 Sedan I4 Original
#4. 1974 Pangra Wagon I4 Turbo
#5. 1980 Wagon I4 Restored
#6. 1976 Bobcat Squire Hatchback (Restoring)
...Like i said, I like them.
...and I have 4 Fiats.

Bipper

Scott, FordPinto.com has never looked better! Thanks for all your time and work
on the site so everyone else can enjoy and benefit from it.

Bob
71 Sedan, stock
72 Pangra
73 Runabout, 2L turbo propane

Cookieboystoys

Cookies and Milk for Everyone!!! Great Job!!!
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

71hotrodpinto

Cant say enough! Awsome!!
  Site is faster. nicely laid out and the arcade COOL! (although whats the deal with asteroids and the phantom shooter??? LOL )


95' 302,Forged Pistons,Polished rods
B303,1.7 Rockers,beehives
'68 port/polish heads                   
Coated Must II headers
Edelbrock Airgap
Holley570,Msd dist,CraneHI6
Mil

losin sux

I would be remiss if I did not say   DITTO!!!!!!
77 HB 2.3 C3 3.40

douglasskemp

Many many changes, and all for the better.  We are all very lucky to have Scott, Geoff, and all the other admin folks that keep our favorite outlet alive and kicking.  Really, there is no way I can personally thank you guys enough.  You are my escape when I need to vent, troubleshoot, or just share.  Thank you all, so very much.

--Doug
The Pinto I had I gave to my brother. The car was originally my mom's, (78 red Pinto sedan with a 2.3 and a 4spd.) I am originally from Tucson, AZ but moved to Oxnard CA :D
I'm looking for a Pinto wagon with an automatic.

bob55

Thank you for all of your efforts, Scott!  Greatly appreciated and enjoyed.

Bob
In a quandry......

High_Horse

Two thumbs up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


                                                                                                High_Horse
Started with a Bobcat wagon. Then a Cruising wagon. Now a Chocolate brown 77 wagon. I will enjoy this car for a long time. I'm in. High_Horse

77pintocw

Hey Scott:

Great job!  I know how much time it takes to make and keep up a webpage
and your team has done a fantastic job.

Thanks again for having this place for all of us to hang out.

77pintocw
1977, Pinto Cruising Wagon, White with Blue Graphics

Jinxter

Looking GREAT, Scott!  I know it was a lot of hard work, thanx!
Beat it to fit, paint it to match...

Pintony

Hey Thank you Scott,
for making the site look GREAT and user friendly. 

This is my 2500th post to the PCCA forum.
Hope to reach 10,000 B4 I Die.... ;D
From Pintony

Scott Hamilton

Hi Everyone!

I wanted to take this short time to personally thank each and every one of you for sticking with us during this trying time- site transition. I also want to give a warm 'Yea Man' to all our Charter Member's, without your investment in our future the PCCA/FordPinto.com could not be as far as it is today. Your commitment to the site and it's admins has provided us the opportunity to grow and meet the Pinto Communities needs to a greater degree.

Thank You Charter Members! Thanks very much!! 

Because of the Joomla database failure on the transition and my work to 'restore' our existing site I took this opportunity to move in a completely different direction alltogether. The old site existed with a tempermental balance between dissimilar script writers bridged together with software that was for the most part stable but also dictated how we could grow and expand. We were running with the 'Cadillac' of internet portals with most if not all options before us, the only probelm it was too much for the site to grasp and contend with. We are now running a MUCH simpler portal (SMF/Tiny Portal) that will meet us at our present point of growth and allow us to grow (within boundries) further as time progresses. Think of us NOW driving the 'Pinto' instead of the Cadillac.

I also want to extend my personal yea man to all the Admins who have stood by me, the site and the downtime we all experienced. I think everyone here knows that without them, we would be dead in the water. I would also like to say Thanks to my brother Geoff Hamilton, aka 'Spike'. He is the graphics genius behind our WEB Hosting company and he has always supported my infatuation, affliction with our Dad's Pinto until this day.

Join us for this exciting time ahead and more growth, more new faces, more meets, more of everything!

If we can come this far, how far can we go in the next 2 years?

To everyone, God Bless and a VERY Warm welcome to your new home,

Scott Hamilton
WEBmaster@fordpinto.com
Yellow 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
Green 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
White 73, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
The Lemon, the Lime and the Coconut, :)


Welcome to FordPinto.com, home of the PCCA - the Pinto Car Club of America. Founded in 1999 with the goal of creating a dedicated meeting place with strong appeal to Ford Pinto and Mercury Bobcat owners and enthusiasts across all generations. Each day new members join the PCCA family expanding the knowledge base and enhancing our community.


Our site offers extensive information, technical and historic as well as live classifieds ads to find what you are looking for. One of our main goals is to save you time, money and a lot of hassle when searching for information about our cars. Not a member of our family yet? Please feel free to sign up
 for a free account and join the informative discussions in the forums when looking for that tidbit of info you seek. We, the members of FordPinto.com look forward to welcoming you to our family and hearing from you. We are here to assist in any way we can.


FordPinto.com supports the development of parts resources or parts re-manufacturing as opportunities arise. We promote the efforts of individuals and companies that endeavor to re-manufacture, sell, or otherwise distribute additional resources for the Ford Pinto or Mercury Bobcat.

As always, we at FordPinto.com encourage comments and suggestions on how we may be able to improve your experience with us. We take what our members have to say very seriously. Don't hesitate to submit your ideas and feedback.

management@fordpinto.com