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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

2nd Annual NATIONAL PINTO MEET, 2006 Carlisle Pa

Started by pintoman, September 04, 2005, 07:14:58 PM

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DreamBean

Did some one forget to post a picture of this??
Go Ford, Go Fast Or Go Home!

DreamBean

Tommy & Sherry Burrell, Greer, South Carolina 1980/76 Turbocharged 2300, 5 speed, 3.73 *special Two tone*(LOL)  "Long Distance award"(568 miles driven) I don't know where to start to thank all those who put such a great effort into such a great show. Or to thank all those that I got to meet. The Cars and The people are out of this wourld. We had a Blast. Sorry to hear about all those who had troubles and could not make it.We know that you where there in spirit. We left Monday mourning and drove the Shenandoah parkway to the Blue Ridge Parkway. I like to call it the Pinto on the Parkway trip. I have now traveled the parkway(at one time or another) the complete distance. My goal is to do it ALL at one time in the Pinto.
Go Ford, Go Fast Or Go Home!

Creamsicle

Thanks to all who voted for my car (best paint) and especially to the old farts (geez I hate to use that term).  The OFG Choice award meant a lot to me.  You guys have been around and I still have a lot of dues to pay before I'm in your league.  My 62 year old brother in law with a '46 Ford pick-up street rod is coveting the t-shirt.  He'll have to pry it off my cold dead back. I think a West, Cental and East meet is a great idea.  Being in CT, I don't know how far west we'd go but we'd certainly offer whatever support, ideas and resources we can. 
Connie
My car could get a job at Hooters, it's already got the uniform.

68cyclone

Hey Gang:

Carlisle was a blast;  Great to meet fellow Pinto Nuts.

I still have 2nd Annual T-shirts left (XL and XXL) @ 12.00 each including shipping.  Let me or Harley know if you want one.

Idea= How about 3 pinto meets each year?  One on the west coast, around April, (Knotts Beery), one East, June (Carlisle), and one in the Midwest around Sept. (TBD).

What do you THink?

Remember Race Car spelled backwards is Race Car.

Mike"68cyclone"

phils toys

Quote from: 77turbopinto on June 07, 2006, 12:07:44 PM
They had a Starsky and Hutch class; I will give a dollar to someone that paints a pinto the same way, and enters the car in that class at Carlisle next year.

Bill
here is one that is close  he tried to make it this year  but could not find a room, it would have been nice to have a travel partner
Hay  Matt PA dont hate you  just dont want you to leave :stop: ;D
2006, 07,08 ,10 Carlisle 3rd stock pinto 4 years same place
2007 PCCA East Regional Best Wagon
2008 CAHS Prom Coolest Ride
2011,2014 pinto stampede

r4pinto

Kinda sad ain't it? Mine won Most potention & it's the one that's sitting in the driveway dead.

I think Pa hates me. So far I'm 4 for 4 cars having problems after I drove them to Pa. Toyota almost lost a wheel & blew  a motor, Celebrity lost a fuel pump & later motor, Kia lost a tranny twice after the trip- no problems before & finally the Pinto. It died with 130 miles to go & I've yet to get it going again, although I am coming close.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

r4pinto

Umm  Harley, just one correction.. it's Matt Manter, instead of Mentor. I tell ya over the hears there have been some wierd spellings of my last name, & that's a new one for the books..lol
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

turbopinto72

So, was there about 16 pintos? Hmm just about as many as the West Coast show....... ;D
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

pintoman

Here are the results of the voting of the classes that we had.                                                                                                                                  Best Engine- PINTONY                                                                                                                            Best Interior- DAVE HERBECT                                                                                                                            Best Paint-CONNIE RAINEY                                                                                                                              Most Potential-MATT MENTOR                                                                                                                             Best of Show-PAUL ALBERTS                                                                                                                            And finally Old Farts Pick went to CONNIE RAINEY.Give every one a big hand they deserved the awards.
05 Pigon Forge Meet, 06 Carlile Meet Coordinator 06-07 Carlile Regional, Brief Case Award (ask)

r4pinto

wally world spray paint here I come!! just kidding, although it would be cool to see a starsky & hutch pinto scheme there.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

77turbopinto

They had a Starsky and Hutch class; I will give a dollar to someone that paints a pinto the same way, and enters the car in that class at Carlisle next year.

Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

pintoman

One more thing ,i want to thank everone who helped out with the tent rental donations.It was most appreciated.Thats a double for you Dave.
05 Pigon Forge Meet, 06 Carlile Meet Coordinator 06-07 Carlile Regional, Brief Case Award (ask)

pintoman

I am glad that everyone had a good time.I would like to thank the UNITED FORD OWNERS car club for donating the plaques that we gave away.We also still have plenty of the event T-SHIRTS if anyone wants one.They are 12$ each,just let me know or 68cyclone and we will get them to you.I have allready started my Carlisle fund for next year.Again thanks to everyone,and i have made many new friends and can't wait until next year.
05 Pigon Forge Meet, 06 Carlile Meet Coordinator 06-07 Carlile Regional, Brief Case Award (ask)

r4pinto

I hear ya Phil. The hot wheels races were fun though. With that & all the other things it was a great time. It's a shame we can't do that more than once a year.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

phils toys

Pintony,
that was not cheating that was dominating :fastcar:
also we are from PA ( very close to N.Y.) Phil and Family.... White "WOODY" Bobcat. From New York,These Boys really know how to CHEAT at the hotwheel races...
2006, 07,08 ,10 Carlisle 3rd stock pinto 4 years same place
2007 PCCA East Regional Best Wagon
2008 CAHS Prom Coolest Ride
2011,2014 pinto stampede

77turbopinto

Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

77turbopinto

You are quite welcome Tony. You did a bunch more than we did and thank you too.

When we found out that we won, the first question I asked is "What 2 did we get right?" That was a tough quiz, and most of our answers were pure guesses. I will study more for next time.

Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

Pintony

Quote from: 77turbopinto on June 06, 2006, 08:49:25 AM
Tony: Sorry, but Connie's car is a '78. I know you deal more with the older ones, no big deal.

Bill

Hey Bill,
I fixed Connies year issue and announced the winners for the Snap on tools.
I was getting pretty tired last night and just figured I would fix my errors today.
Thanks for the help and for being a BIG part of the meet....
From Pintony

77turbopinto

Tony: Sorry, but Connie's car is a '78. I know you deal more with the older ones, no big deal.

Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

Boss2300

That would be original74. i had to check for his name. sorry
'I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisable, with liberty and justice for all.'

Boss2300

Pintony your welcome. I'll have to post a link for the other pinto song I played. My Ford Pinto Car. Glad to hear everyone made it home safe so far. There is still 1 on the road heading home.
'I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisable, with liberty and justice for all.'

Pintony

Hello Group,
Here is a group shot infront of the tent and the banners that were made for the group.

Top row. Left to right.
Paul, w/better 1/2 on rhs, Blue green Pinto "Tornado" V8..  Pa.

Dennis, Silver C-Wagon 2.3 turbo... Fuel ,Pump problems kept Dennis out for most of Saturday but arived ready to show off his stereo on sunday.
Thanks for playing the Rollin in my Pinto for me....

Steve, Runner-UP in my contest 18 correct answers.Pa.

John, White 74 Pinto White W/blue interior and race 2.3 Pa.

Somebody help me out with this fellows name???

Harley... Blue 79 Rallye Oh. 2005+2006 Pinto nationals

Matt, Brown 77 sedan Oh.

Connie, Tangarine 78 Pinto Ct.
                                           > WINNERS OF THE SNAP ON TOOL!!!!! 18 1/2 correct answers. Nice Job, Bill and Connie!!!...
Bill, Desert Sand 77 Pinto Ct.

Again, I do not know this fellows name. Somebody help me out..

Dick an his better 1/2.... White 1979 2.3 POSTAL Sedan. Oh. 05+06 attendance

Tommy "Dream Bean" from Tenn. with his white and blue DYNO tested 2.3 Turbo 05+06 attendance.

Original74 Dave "Playboy Playmate" Hounddog 1974 all original Tangarine Pinto. Tulsa OKlahoma.

Bottom Row

Mike and his son Just back from Iraq.... Ohio... 05+06 attendance Thanks for making the event T-shirt Mike

Phil and Family.... White "WOODY" Bobcat. From Pa,These Boys really know how to CHEAT at the hotwheel races... ;D

Wayne from Ohio with his better 1/2  Hurricane ravaged C-wagon still in storage 2005-2006 attendance.


ME on the end.


Hope you guys all had fun...
Wish I would have had time to talk more with everyone.
Sorry about the forgotten names.

From Pintony






r4pinto

& on the back of that Pinto at the burnout competition... KA-BOOM!!
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

phils toys

ok now the dyno
2006, 07,08 ,10 Carlisle 3rd stock pinto 4 years same place
2007 PCCA East Regional Best Wagon
2008 CAHS Prom Coolest Ride
2011,2014 pinto stampede

phils toys

The pictures are great sofar here are a few more 2 from the burn out compition and one on the dyno
2006, 07,08 ,10 Carlisle 3rd stock pinto 4 years same place
2007 PCCA East Regional Best Wagon
2008 CAHS Prom Coolest Ride
2011,2014 pinto stampede

r4pinto

Yeah, yours really was a nice Pinto. But to be honest all of them there were. It was nice to meet everyone & I'm glad to say that you guys are a great bunch of people. None of you looked down on mine & have shown nothing but concern & what not regarding my breaking down on the way. Rest asured I will Not rest until my car is back on the road. No matter how painful it is to her. She will be back next year. & I already have a couple people who want to come & see all the great Pintos ( and the rest of the other fords too ) Yes I wish she woulda made the trip in one piece, but she didnt, so now I'll just find out what the heck went wrong & fix it. Got my pix developed today so I'm gonna get 'em scanned & posted.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

CONSFIRE

Good evening to all my new friends,
                      It's Monday night and I'm still on cloud nine,got home last night about 10 PM unloaded the car off the trailer and couldn't get to sleep so I posted a long thread on my local car club site(WNYCARCLUBS.COM) and the little one here, finally went to bed around 3 in the morning. Got up this morning at 8 and had so much energy I didn't slow down the whole day. boy,what good weekend will do for 'ya! Scott,I'm quite sure the Pinto you are asking about is my '71. Sorry to hear about Matt breaking down,glad he got home alright. Harley,a GREAT BIG THANK YOU for doing a great job on the planning and seeing that we all had a really good time(my buddy Mark had a great time too!). Pintony,thanks for the goodie bag and bringing the purple Pinto it's really nice! See you all real soon!           

wantapinto

hey 77Turbopinto....Who owns the white Pinto in your photos?..Thats my kind of clean look I am going for. Do you have any more photos of that car? And the Engine compartment. Thanks, Dave
1972 Pinto.  Disc brakes, Blue,

r4pinto

Thanks for giving me your number before we headed out Harley. I got the car running today, bu it's running very poorly. Something else had to have gone wrong since it's running badly. Oh well. Atleast Harold II went around 800 miles or so without any problems. I still had fun even with the car problems the last 140 miles & was glad to meet all of you guys. Like you said Harley, the car will run again, although slightly wounded. I got mad at it today & kicked the crap out of the LF fender. Good thing it's rusty anyways.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

pintoman

I wish to thank every one for coming out.Even for the ones who's cars did not make it.I felt bad for leaving Matt along the freeway,i was leading in a rain storm and did not see him pullover.I am glad he made it home OK and that the car will live again.I will get a list of winners in the next day or so.Lost the results,have to figure out who's who.The pictures are great and i thank PINTONY for dropping the doors off at my place on his way back.
05 Pigon Forge Meet, 06 Carlile Meet Coordinator 06-07 Carlile Regional, Brief Case Award (ask)


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