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77 pinto
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Pinto or Bobcat wagon wanted
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1975 rear end, 8 inch, drum brakes, and axles, 3.4 gear.

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2.0 Mickey Thompson SUPER RARE Rocker cover and belt guard
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PINTO TRUNK LATCH & CATCH

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2.3 carb intake

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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Meet Schedule Planning Developing,

Started by Pintony, January 15, 2006, 01:07:25 AM

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pintoman

Hey Tom.Just what Tony said,you have to come.Lots of free-be's.I think the gates open up about 7 in the morning on each day.I plan on being there between 7 and 8 each day.I will eat breakfast there at the show.The show ends about 3 or 4 each day.Come and have fun and meet all the other Pinto nuts.
05 Pigon Forge Meet, 06 Carlile Meet Coordinator 06-07 Carlile Regional, Brief Case Award (ask)

Late Models Best

Tony,
   I'll try my best to make it.  I do want to go over and prep my car for the 1hr.& 15 min. trip down Rt81 though. I'm sure everthing is fine mechanically. But I want to change the rearend and 4spd. tranny lubes.  Can I use the same lube in both?  I have 4 qts of Pennsoil 80-90 GL5 lube.  Is that OK to use in both and is it enough? The rear and tranny probably has the original lube in them.  I've noticed that the tranny gets harder to shift after it's hot. I'm hoping new lube will clear that up.
Tom D.  Late model best
TJD

Late Models Best

I'm one of the lucky members that only lives about an hour and 15 minutes away from Carlisle and my Dad lives there so I have a place to stay when I go there.  I just got my 79 C.W.out yesterday and shined it all up. Then I find out my band is playing a gig that Saturday night.  I really wanted to go to this meet but would it be worth it to go Friday arriving about 3:00-5:00 PM  and then be at the meet early Saturday no later than noon.  I really wanted to show my beauty off but not paying 45.00 to get in the gate for a few hours.  I may come and just leave it out in the streets. I really want to see other Pintos, get some customizing ideas, Photos, and a club tee shirt. What gate is the closest to the meet tent? Will there be anybody there Friday and how late can I get in?  How early Saturday will it be set up?  I really really want to be there!  Hey Harley and others,  You've done a great job organizing this meet.
Let me know on my questions.
Tom Doorly   (Late Models Best)
TJD

pintoman

Hey Matt.The plane right now is we will be leaving between 8 and 9 am on the first.We may meet up at the T/A truck stop east of Columbus.I will have to let you know about that.See you there.
05 Pigon Forge Meet, 06 Carlile Meet Coordinator 06-07 Carlile Regional, Brief Case Award (ask)

r4pinto

Hey Harley, any idea wheat time & where we're meeting up to leave Ohio? My car WILL be ok to drive. I just drove to Ricks for some more parts & all went good, except the full oil change between here & Chillicothe, but that is getting fixed.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

pintoman

Yes a roster would be good.I will start it off. i will be there with my 80 Rallye and i will have one passenger with me.I will be there sometime in the early afternoon on the 1rst of June.
05 Pigon Forge Meet, 06 Carlile Meet Coordinator 06-07 Carlile Regional, Brief Case Award (ask)

Original74

Hey guys,

Are we planning to do any kind of formal roster of attendee's and plan/share arrival times, etc.? Maybe I am missing this info somewhere else. I will do some more looking.

Dave
Dave Herbeck- Missing from us... He will always be with us

1974 Sedan, 'Geraldine', 45,000 miles, orange and white, show car.
1976 Runabout, project.
1979 Sedan, 'Jade', 429 miles, show car, really needs to be in a museum. I am building him one!
1979 Runabout, light blue, 39,000 miles, daily driver

pintoman

Yea you still can go.You have until the 15th of May to pre-regester[i think].It cost $35 to pre-regester and $45 to regester at Carlisle.Like Philstoy said check out Carlisles web sight.Hope to see you there,Pintoman.
05 Pigon Forge Meet, 06 Carlile Meet Coordinator 06-07 Carlile Regional, Brief Case Award (ask)

phils toys

2006, 07,08 ,10 Carlisle 3rd stock pinto 4 years same place
2007 PCCA East Regional Best Wagon
2008 CAHS Prom Coolest Ride
2011,2014 pinto stampede

CARCARE

can you still go to penn. even thought i havent registered?
candyred silverbase                                                                                                      

78 turbo sedan 2 yr resto.

pintoman

We have at least a couple of members that want to race so i believe that we will have one.You can bring as many cars as you want,and every one can race.
05 Pigon Forge Meet, 06 Carlile Meet Coordinator 06-07 Carlile Regional, Brief Case Award (ask)

phils toys

hot wheels race hummmm how many can i bring?????
2006, 07,08 ,10 Carlisle 3rd stock pinto 4 years same place
2007 PCCA East Regional Best Wagon
2008 CAHS Prom Coolest Ride
2011,2014 pinto stampede

DreamBean

Cool Idea there mr.Breifcase, I mean pintoman. I bet the kids would love that. (me included) Now if I can just find my Davey Allison #28 Ford Thunderbird. Go Yates!!
Go Ford, Go Fast Or Go Home!

pintoman

Would anyone coming to Carlisle like to have a HOT WHEELS DRAG while at Carlisle.If so let me know so i can bring the track.There will be two classes,one is stock and the other modified.Stock means that the car is to be in the original package unopened with no mod's.Modified means go for it.This will be for all ages.
05 Pigon Forge Meet, 06 Carlile Meet Coordinator 06-07 Carlile Regional, Brief Case Award (ask)

DreamBean

TOOLS!!!  Pintony! You have out done yourself. Those are some nice Ratchets. I will be painting my ride in two weeks. So It Will Be Shiney. Can I bring you a 6 pack to bribe ya with. What da ya drink? Hello! Can we get pintony a AT-A-Boy!?
Go Ford, Go Fast Or Go Home!

crazyhorse

I SOOOOOO wanna go to Carslile, but finances & work schedule just will not allow it >:(

Best of luck to all those going, take & POST all kinds of pics. Make me feel like I was there, I will be in spirit anyways.
Pintony, you gonna drag race the Purple Pinto? Be sure to post times! Inquiring minds wanna know! If anyone takes video, I'll post it in my Photobucket account.
How to tell when a redneck's time is up: He combines these two sentences... Hey man, hold my beer. Hey y'all watch this!
'74 Runabout, stock 2300,auto  RIP Darlin.
'95 Olds Gutless "POS"
'97 Subaru Legacy wagon "Kat"

r4pinto

Hell, at this point I'd just be happy if my damn car ran worth a shizod. Does it seem like I'm pissed at it? If you said yes you guessed right! If anyone might be able to help my car make it to Carlisle by reading the post I have in general help & helping me with the running problem, I would greatly appreciate it, as would my wallet, since I have already paid for the registration & got hotel reservations.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

r4pinto

Sweet.. So that's 3 Pintos at econo lodge mechanicsburg.. Let y friend cry silently & have nightmares.. :evil: :devil:
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

Scott Hamilton

Quote from: r4pinto on February 28, 2006, 06:35:11 PM
Which one you at? I'm at the mechanicsburg econo lodge. That's as close as I could get without paying outrageous rates.

Yup, Same one...
Yellow 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
Green 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
White 73, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
The Lemon, the Lime and the Coconut, :)

pintoman

Hey everyone.I'm glad we are getting so many Pinto's at Carlisle.While we are there the BS sessions in the evenings will be at the Motel-6.We usually set up a tent in the area and just BS all night.Every one is welcomed to stop by.
05 Pigon Forge Meet, 06 Carlile Meet Coordinator 06-07 Carlile Regional, Brief Case Award (ask)

r4pinto

 :surprised: What!?! another Pinto owner there besides me?? sweet... looks like my friend witll be bored to death by the Pinto talk..lol
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

DreamBean

 :amazed:I too am staying at the Econo lodge! r4pinto, We will be roomies!!! COOL!!LOL
Go Ford, Go Fast Or Go Home!

r4pinto

Quote from: Scott Hamilton on February 28, 2006, 04:13:13 PM
I'm at the Econo lodge.....

Which one you at? I'm at the mechanicsburg econo lodge. That's as close as I could get without paying outrageous rates.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

pintoman

I will be at Motel-6 on Harrisbugh pike.
05 Pigon Forge Meet, 06 Carlile Meet Coordinator 06-07 Carlile Regional, Brief Case Award (ask)

Scott Hamilton

Yellow 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
Green 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
White 73, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
The Lemon, the Lime and the Coconut, :)

r4pinto

I'm not too sure you'll be able to stay i the same one as Harley. When I was trying to make reservations it showed all three were full. That's why I had to go with econo lodge. Your best bet is to go to a site like Orbitz.com or motels.com. That's how I found my room.

Hope this helps.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

DreamBean

Harley,which one you staying at? I thought that I saw 2 or 3 on there web site. Will be calling them tomorrow. What to make sure it is the same one.
Go Ford, Go Fast Or Go Home!

pintoman

Hey Dreambean.Have you called the number that i gave you about rooms.I should be there about 6 pm on Thursday we can hang out together.Pintoman.
05 Pigon Forge Meet, 06 Carlile Meet Coordinator 06-07 Carlile Regional, Brief Case Award (ask)

DreamBean

I have pre reg. But still hunting a motel room. I plan on going up early thursday mourning. I want to hook up with any one that will be seen with me.LOL Hey Crazyhorse! You coming too!?!
Go Ford, Go Fast Or Go Home!

r4pinto

Fair warning... Hotel Rooms are filling up very fast.  :2fast4u: I just went to register & was lucky to find one in Mechanicsburg (about 20 minutes away from Carlisle) as low as $75 for 2 people. Act now as they're filling up. Check Motels.com & you might get a cheaper rate, especially if you have AAA or any other applicable discounts.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress


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