Topic: Taking the turbo plunge!

[Wittsend]

The Mustang SVOs only had one scoop. On top of that, is was position on the hood such that above 50-60mph it would start pulling hot air out of the engine bay and through the intercooler..a nd the red-hot turbo parts are right below that. At least that's what the legend states.

Yea, one of these days I should use the Man-O-Meter test http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/u-tube-manometer-d_611.html to see "which way the wind blows." Hey, I've got a Indoor/outdoor thermometer sitting on my desk so I can check efficiency too. If nothing else I can claim the scoop is a vent for when I'm parked at idling.

[dianne]

Yea, one of these days I should use the Man-O-Meter test http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/u-tube-manometer-d_611.html to see "which way the wind blows." Hey, I've got a Indoor/outdoor thermometer sitting on my desk so I can check efficiency too. If nothing else I can claim the scoop is a vent for when I'm parked at idling.

I'm just at my wittsend right now ahahahaha

I've wanted to say that for awhile!

[76hotrodpinto]

I was very wary to click on anything labelled "manometer". I had been under the impression it was just a ruler! Ahem...

[Wittsend]

Well, I sure don't want to give people the wrong impression, so here is a manometer (see first image). Basically it is a clear, U-shaped tube that is partially filled with water (often colored to see better). One end of the tube is run in the air stream (see second image - BTW, that is NOT me). As the air pressure increases it forces the water to rise in the tube. Typically there is some form of marking to denote the amount the water rises.  I also have seen the reverse where a vacuum is applied. Google images shows the manometer often being used to tune multi carburetor engines on motorcycles.

[Rebolting73]

When you hook up the manometer, make sure to also tape a bunch of yarn to the hood to look extra scientific.  Your scoop does have some wedge to it...if it has enough..maybe it qualifies as an actual NACA Duct?  Those Turbocoupe hoods had all that official looking plastic ducting hooked to them that made it seem like either engineering or marketing really thought they would be useful.  I like the way it looks, subtle yet dangerous.

[76hotrodpinto]

I mangled up an injector today. Darn it all! I guess I'll just have some better ones now. So in the world of injectors for the tc setup, what are my best performing options?

[65ShelbyClone]

For a stock setup, stock or stock equivalent. Green-top injectors were stock for '83-85 engines, are low impedance, and flow 30lb/hr. '85.5-89 got "brown-top" injectors that flow 35lb/hr and are also low impedance.

[76hotrodpinto]

I have the brown top ones on it. Should I get a new set, or just replace the broken one?

[65ShelbyClone]

Which part of the injector broke? The plastic cap on the spray end can be replaced if the pintle isn't damaged.

One problem with 2.3T injectors that is getting more common as they age is that the plastic starts to split on the feed side. The 2.3T performance crowd, being famous as cheapskates, will sometimes use them if they aren't leaking or too badly cracked, but I think $200 is money better spent  on new injectors than rebuilding a burned-down car.

I have several spares and, curiously, the early '85 parts aren't cracking, but the later ones are (which I think may be aftermarket).

 

[76hotrodpinto]

I dropped the whole assembly, and bent the whole injector, maybe two of them. I'm looking at some ebay deals on another set. If I were to look beyond factory parts, what are some quality brands of aftermarket injectors?

[65ShelbyClone]

There are a lot of brands out there that are suitable and most of them just rebrand injectors from a smaller pool of manufacturers. GP Sorensen is a stock aftermarket supplier (I have some I pulled from a Merkur), Siemens, Bosch(OE), Hitachi(OE), Accel, Venom, etc. Even KEihin and Mikuni make injectors these days, but I don't think any of them are compatible with EV1 applications. That's the stock 2.3T injector series: EV1. EV3 injectors will drop in place, but have a skinny plastic body. EV6 is like EV3, but with an EV6/USCAR connector than can often be used with plug adapters. EV12 and EV14 are more common on much newer cars and are totally different.

Avoid no-name and/or unmarked Chinese bootlegs like the plague. If they ship from anywhere in China or are suspiciously cheap for new parts, avoid them.

[76hotrodpinto]

I'm loving all this new stuff to learn! I find some similarities to running blowers, which I'm pretty good at setting up right. The fuel injection adds a layer I've never dealt with. Playing a whole new game of psi.

[65ShelbyClone]

I have also heard that high impedance injectors will work with a 2.3T computer, but no one bills it as a sure thing. As long as they stay open when the ECU starts limiting current during the injection pulse, they will hypothetically work.

Conversely, using low-impedance injectors with an ECU designed to run highs is bad news. It's a lot like running an old-style ignition coil without a ballast resistor.

[76hotrodpinto]

I think I may have a cracked head! The one on the engine. I'm sending it in to get checked this week. It was running great, but I can't put it back on with any doubts. So much for the smooth sailing part.

[Wittsend]

  It would be a surprise if you DIDN'T have a cracked (turbo) head.  Mine goes right through the valve seat. If it is leaking coolant, yea something needs to be done. Otherwise what I've read most people just run them. I'm still running mine.
  You might want to go over to NATO, The Ranger Station etc. and see what they have to say.  From my perspective the supply of Turbo Coupes are drying up.  I've seen one in the past two years and I make monthly trips to two self serve yards.  So, I'd like to know what head alternatives are going to become necessary in the future.

[dianne]

  It would be a surprise if you DIDN'T have a cracked (turbo) head.  Mine goes right through the valve seat. If it is leaking coolant, yea something needs to be done. Otherwise what I've read most people just run them. I'm still running mine.
  You might want to go over to NATO, The Ranger Station etc. and see what they have to say.  From my perspective the supply of Turbo Coupes are drying up.  I've seen one in the past two years and I make monthly trips to two self serve yards.  So, I'd like to know what head alternatives are going to become necessary in the future.

Wouldn't the EFI work?

[Wittsend]

My understanding if that the exhaust valve and maybe the seat are designed to handle the turbo heat over a N/A head. Also, the combustion chamber is larger to handle the boost. Others may know the situation better than I.

[dianne]

My understanding if that the exhaust valve and maybe the seat are designed to handle the turbo heat over a N/A head. Also, the combustion chamber is larger to handle the boost. Others may know the situation better than I.

Oh, I thought they were the same. Maybe they can be built to handle it? Just a thought

[65ShelbyClone]

Turbo heads have the same large chamber as the oval-port "pinto" 2.3 heads. Turbo heads got super alloy exhaust valves that are quite durable in this application, although one-piece stainless is generally a suitable replacement.  Inconel would be better IMO. The seats are cut into the head and are induction hardened like any other '80s-vintage production iron head. If you catch the cracks before they hit water, installing new seats typically stops things from getting worse.

Using a non-turbo head on a turbo engine will raise the compression from 8.0:1 to about 8.5:1 and make the engine more octane sensitive. Turbo 2.3s came with both larger chambers and dished pistons.

[dianne]

Turbo heads have the same large chamber as the oval-port "pinto" 2.3 heads. Turbo heads got super alloy exhaust valves that are quite durable in this application, although one-piece stainless is generally a suitable replacement.  Inconel would be better IMO. The seats are cut into the head and are induction hardened like any other '80s-vintage production iron head. If you catch the cracks before they hit water, installing new seats typically stops things from getting worse.

Using a non-turbo head on a turbo engine will raise the compression from 8.0:1 to about 8.5:1 and make the engine more octane sensitive. Turbo 2.3s came with both larger chambers and dished pistons.

What about the 2.3 EFI engines that came with the Fox bodies.

[76hotrodpinto]

Is esslinger the only company casting fresh heads?

[dennisofaz]

Hi Dianne,


If you want to go with a turbo you will need Forged pistons, not stock 2.3liter N/A pistons.  You can use the forged pistons with out a turbo for now, and add the turbo later.


Dennis

[65ShelbyClone]

What about the 2.3 EFI engines that came with the Fox bodies.

They tend to break ring lands when turbocharged. The parts will hold ~200hp, but the slightest knock is likely to break a piston.

Factory turbo pistons by TRW have been obsolete for a long time too. 

[dianne]

They tend to break ring lands when turbocharged. The parts will hold ~200hp, but the slightest knock is likely to break a piston.

Factory turbo pistons by TRW have been obsolete for a long time too. 

Oh

[dianne]

Hi Dianne,

If you want to go with a turbo you will need Forged pistons, not stock 2.3liter N/A pistons.  You can use the forged pistons with out a turbo for now, and add the turbo later.

Dennis

I'm keeping it non-turbo. More of a driver and fun car and show car The Maverick will be the muscle car

[76hotrodpinto]

Well that ones is cracked, not where I thought, but cracked. Not unusable though. I acquired 2 others to have checked, so I'll pick the best of the 3 and rebuild it. Puts me a little behind schedule, but what's new.

 Made a 2 1/2" stainless down pipe, and shaping a panel to replace battery tray area, to give turbo room. Going to have to pull that damned heater box... again! I'm thinking I might run a bead on all the seems I can reach while the motor is out. But that means racking it up, so I don't know, feeling kind of lazy about that.

[dianne]

Well that ones is cracked, not where I thought, but cracked. Not unusable though. I acquired 2 others to have checked, so I'll pick the best of the 3 and rebuild it. Puts me a little behind schedule, but what's new.

 Made a 2 1/2" stainless down pipe, and shaping a panel to replace battery tray area, to give turbo room. Going to have to pull that damned heater box... again! I'm thinking I might run a bead on all the seems I can reach while the motor is out. But that means racking it up, so I don't know, feeling kind of lazy about that.

You found the turbo heads? Very cool! Now you have spares also!!!

[76hotrodpinto]

You found the turbo heads? Very cool! Now you have spares also!!!

Craigslist is good to me. I have been finding more turbo motors and parts, than non-turbo. I came across a guy who was into racing turbo coupes, and now he's done. Got another rebuilt motor, a pile-o-parts and a whole 86 tc. Some svo stuff in the pile too. All for $1300. Should be enough crap to get going!

[dianne]

Craigslist is good to me. I have been finding more turbo motors and parts, than non-turbo. I came across a guy who was into racing turbo coupes, and now he's done. Got another rebuilt motor, a pile-o-parts and a whole 86 tc. Some svo stuff in the pile too. All for $1300. Should be enough crap to get going!

That's awersome, I found my 2.3 EFI and transmission for only $300 and probably didn't even need a rebuild...

Not finding any roller Pintos or Fox bodies

[pinto_one]

your getting there, I sent you a PM on the steps to install the engine and trans, you will be so happy when it is done , later Blaine