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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Turbo Conversion questions

Started by Greymare, October 16, 2014, 02:56:04 PM

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Greymare

Wittsend
My original post was not intended to be a "valid debate" but as a I didn't just take the guys word for it I got off my @$$ and did a little testing to see proof. I do apologize if it sounded like I was being an @$$ to 65SC as that was not my intention. My intention was to say you can't set and shoot something down with what are called facts if you don't have the fact. I didn't both providing all the facts as I didn't know I was headed into a debate over what I saw with my own 2 eyes. Again I wasn't looking to change anyone's mind here just trying to give any idea of what I have seen not some numbers that someone crunched on a calculator to decide if something works or not. I also understand that there needs to be a baseline before I try my set up later. As I will be driving it every day I will have plenty of miles to see results if there are any. I am sure even then there will be people that bring to question traffic and temperature outside. As I said before if its 3-4 MPG I'll consider that a win. I am done with this topic because as I said I am new here and don't want to end up getting myself banned over something I said.

   
Dick
Its fine I am a big boy and I can take whatever you have to say. I have all those keys on my keyboard as well. If the conversation gets bad enough I just forget to use them sometimes. LOL As stated above though I was replying to the point that you can't shoot something down with facts if you don't have all the facts and I didn't provide every fact as I didn't know I was going to be in a debate.

dick1172762

Well said Wittsend! I started to post about it but all the words were @#$%^&* and I gave up. Sounds like the old 100MPG carb that the oil co bought to save their a@# back in the 50's. I've still got one of those carbs on my Pinto and while I've never got 100 MPG, I have got in the low 90's. The longer I use it the better the story gets. I'm sure 100MPG's is due in another year or two. Right now, I'm looking for a good lawyer to take the carb to the next step with the oil co. I've been told by several lawyers that men in black Suburban's have talked to them.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Wittsend

Normally I wouldn't step into this conversation, but I don't think 65SC was calling you a D**b *ss.  I myself would have interrupted, " we drove the car on some back roads to eliminate traffic as much as possible all the way back to the station then checked the mileage" as being under 100 miles.

A starting point of any valid debate begins with defining your terms. So, defining the distance and its circumstances, the set up of the Generator etc. would be helpful. Stating driving down "back roads" and then making a point it could have been "1 mile or 500 miles" and "There may have been a second battery" is not going to convince someone that the devise is effective.  This is all very vague.

65SC is basing his position on the laws of physics and a driving distance sufficient for an accurate determination of mileage improvement. And given the "48% gain" claimed it would cause most (myself included) to look for a greater proof before acceptance.  I'm not saying the device does, or doesn't work.  All I'm saying is evidence presented isn't sufficient for a reasonable person to accept.

Perhaps it can better be illustrated this way. If one were to say putting a restriction in the exhaust system can considerably produce more power it sounds bogus.  But when one understands the restriction is a turbo the principles behind it makes it easier to grasp concept.  In the case of the turbo it is using the existing heat and pressure (as a result of combustion) to force more air into the engine for greater power.  But, note this power increase still come at an increase in fuel use.

In the same way the hydrogen generator may increase mileage, but at what energy cost to generate it?  So (as eluded to potentially being present) does a second battery skew the results. Is it charged externally?  If so that cost needs to be weighed against the cost of gasoline for a true cost per mile. What does the weight of the system do to mileage?

Build the system. Report back the results after long term testing - which by the way starts with testing the existing vehicle extensively before modification.  I hope it works but it will take more than a one time test to convince me it does.  If the results are genuinely positive take it to Popular Mechanics and smile.

Greymare

Quote from: 65ShelbyClone on October 21, 2014, 11:35:23 AM
Obviously I wasn't there, but the the test method was faulty in any case. The error is inversely related to the amount of fuel and miles used to arrive at the results. Since both were very low, the error is extremely high.

Then the laws of physics enter into it, particularly conservation of energy. The engine converts chemical energy into into physical motion at about a 30% efficiency which is then converted back into electricity by the alternator at about a 65% efficiency which is then used by electrolysis of water at lets say 50% efficiency(industrial cells average in the low 70s). The hydrogen and oxygen then contain the remainder which is then re-used by the engine at the same 30% efficiency.

100 * 0.30 = 30 (engine)
30 * 0.65 = 19.5 (alternator)
19.5 * 0.50 = 11.7 (cell)
9.75 * 0.3 = 2.93 (recovered by the engine)

In other words, of the original gasoline energy used to electrolyze the water, you can recover just 2.93% of it as useful work.

That's a 97% loss.

I will start by saying I am new here. I will also say I am 39 years old and have played with cars since I was 14. That being said I want to say I am not some D**b*ss. I understand that there are some variations in both times we made the road trip. I didn't have a nice closed circuit to do the test as to provide exact numbers.  I also know that I filled the tank and fuel neck up to the top so the amount of fuel was the same.  As for the distance what is to short? I never said how far we drove so you don't know if I drove 1 mile or 500 mile. Also who said that it was connected to the battery on the car? There may have been a second battery.  With all that said let me say now that there is a huge amount of error in your math as I know there was almost a 48% gain on this particular car. I know that this is not going to be the same results for me but it is still impressive and enough for me to ignore the number crunching naysayers that only believe what they can figure out with a math problem to be fact. Even if it was half that amount who wouldn't want 4 mpg extra for what could be a low cost?     

65ShelbyClone

Obviously I wasn't there, but the the test method was faulty in any case. The error is inversely related to the amount of fuel and miles used to arrive at the results. Since both were very low, the error is extremely high.

Then the laws of physics enter into it, particularly conservation of energy. The engine converts chemical energy into into physical motion at about a 30% efficiency which is then converted back into electricity by the alternator at about a 65% efficiency which is then used by electrolysis of water at lets say 50% efficiency(industrial cells average in the low 70s). The hydrogen and oxygen then contain the remainder which is then re-used by the engine at the same 30% efficiency.

100 * 0.30 = 30 (engine)
30 * 0.65 = 19.5 (alternator)
19.5 * 0.50 = 11.7 (cell)
9.75 * 0.3 = 2.93 (recovered by the engine)

In other words, of the original gasoline energy used to electrolyze the water, you can recover just 2.93% of it as useful work.

That's a 97% loss.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Greymare

Quote from: 65ShelbyClone on October 20, 2014, 12:52:55 PM
How exactly were those numbers arrived upon?

We went to a gas station and topped it off all the way up to the neck. Then we drove the car on some back roads to eliminate traffic as much as possible all the way back to the station then checked the mileage. Once topped back off we did it again with the generator on. It was enough to convince me there is something to it. As I said his setup looks very unsafe to me and for sure has to be creating some crazy EGTs. I have a plan to make it much better which I am sure will hurt the gains some but will no leave me with a hydrogen explosion under my hood if thing go bad.

65ShelbyClone

Quote from: Greymare on October 18, 2014, 10:58:55 PM
I called BS and told him I would have to see it. So we meet up and we did some road miles with the generator turned off. The car got closer to 10 mpg. Then we went the same path and came back with something like 18.7 mpg!

How exactly were those numbers arrived upon?
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Greymare

Quote from: 65ShelbyClone on October 18, 2014, 09:29:21 PM
You can do that if you want, but it's not going to improve your fuel economy. Neither will acetone.

Well I did a lot of research on this and found conflicting results. I know there we some test done by popular mechanics that said they did nothing. After reading their article I had decided not to waste my time. Then one of the guys I work with started telling me about his uncle and his redneck hydrogen generator and how it took his El Camino with small block V8 from 11mpg to 20+mpg. I called BS and told him I would have to see it. So we meet up and we did some road miles with the generator turned off. The car got closer to 10 mpg. Then we went the same path and came back with something like 18.7 mpg! I don't feel the way he is running his is safe but it for sure convinced me that it worked. I think I have a plan to make it much safer. If it gives me 3-5 mpg I will consider that a win. I will also have EGT probes to keep a good eye on all of the exhaust times. I feel you on the not believing it will work but after seeing it first hand I will give it a try.

65ShelbyClone

Quote from: Greymare on October 18, 2014, 08:58:27 PM
I have plans later to add in a Hydrogen generator to really add to the mileage.

You can do that if you want, but it's not going to improve your fuel economy. Neither will acetone.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Greymare

Well I was trying to avoid the headaches of installing a bunch of wiring in this car. I wanted something simple with just a manual boost controller. I only planed on running 4#s of boost or so just to help during the take of times and when you hit the hills. That's when you need that extra little bit of power. I am very familiar with the advantages of fuel injection. I know that would add mileage for sure but would rather stay carburetor. I have plans later to add in a Hydrogen generator to really add to the mileage. As for the knowing the carb passages. I don't but the people I know do and I plan to have them help me. I have also found some detailed instruction on what needs to be modified. This car is going to make some fuel mileage when I am done. Fuel injection will be coming later I am sure as I can't leave things alone.

65ShelbyClone

SVOs had the octane switch and I think Merkurs may have too. In "regular" mode, the octane switch completely disables the boost control solenoid and does pull some timing. I can't remember off-hand if it alters a multiplier or just reduces global timing by a fixed amount. The BCS is inactive below 4000rpm even in 'premium" mode, supposedly to help the transmission live longer. The torque curve ramps up very fast from 3000-4000rpm and peaks around 3700 in a lot of cases.

I have my MegaSquirt set to duplicate the stock BCS behavior although it's probably not necessary with the driveline in a car that is 1000lbs lighter than the original.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Wittsend

 "They could be run on regular fuel, but at a 30%+ reduction in power."

In fact, the 87-88 Turbo Coupes came with a Premium fuel switch specifically for that purpose... - if you are running the LA-2/LA-3 ECU.  For sure it pulls about 2-4 pounds of boost. Not sure if it also alters timing and fuel.

65ShelbyClone

Quote from: amc49 on October 17, 2014, 03:18:21 PM
Homebuilts often blow the first 2-3 engines until one gets a handle on how they work.

That is especially true with 2.3s. They are a tough engine, but have special considerations, particularly octane sensitivity. The fact that they have a 1950s chamber design coupled with all-iron construction, a low rev ceiling, and lots of torque (= cylinder pressure) makes them less forgiving on the tune. Fortunately they tend to blow head gaskets before things start to melt.

Ford employed a knock sensor on the 2.3T and an ECU strategy that aggressively pulls timing when knock is detected. They could be run on regular fuel, but at a 30%+ reduction in power.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

amc49

If you do not understand what EVERY SINGLE SMALL HOLE in a carb does and how to change that you are not ready for blowthru, rather drawthru is much easier. The negative to positive pressure issues with the carb will blow your mind.

A carb cannot touch electronic injection as well and where the mileage increase truly comes from.

Homebuilt will not touch a fully engineered pre-setup like a factory turbo car, a million bucks worth of value there. Homebuilts often blow the first 2-3 engines until one gets a handle on how they work. Slightly lean just to make a NA car run off a bit often melts the engine with homebuilt turbos. You don't get nearly the chances to get it right. Why these guys are saying what they are. I myself have watched several insist they were going turbo until they gave up amid many broken parts. Being sharp is not enough, you gotta be REALLY sharp.

65ShelbyClone

Quote from: Greymare on October 16, 2014, 02:56:04 PM

1) What kind of Mileage are you getting from you 2.3 turbo setup? (Also what kind of setup are you running? Boost level, Turbo size, trans, gears, fuel source, ect.....)
2) What kind of Boost will the stock engine handle?
3) Anyone here ever done a home built turbo setup with or without blow through carb?

1.) I can't answer that from experience just yet, but I will say that an EFI 2.3t/T5 is fully capable of over 30mpg in a slippery, but very heavy Thunderbird. That's with 1982-era electronics. I've heard reports of the same driveline doing around 30 in a Pinto. A carburetor won't do as well, but I would hope for 26+ with careful tuning and driving. If you do any kind of mixed driving, then the carburetor is a 5-10% economy loss off the bat simply because it can't shut off the fuel during deceleration like EFI can (called "overrun fuel cut").

2.) 8-10psi without any pinging. A factory 2.3T with forged pistons and 8.0:1 compression will handle as much as it takes to fold the stock rods, which is around 350-400rwhp/rwtq and typically 20-30psi depending on build.

3.) No, but you might find something on theturboforums.com. You'll need a fuel pump that can supply 5-7psi above your peak boost pressure and a vacuum-referenced 1:1 pressure regulator with an EFI-style return line.

I would strongly suggest getting a wideband O2 sensor for tuning the AFR.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Wittsend

I recommend EFI and a donor turbo car. "65 Shebly Clone" is doing one at the moment. From my experience he is doing it the right way.  Follow his build and below are links to my post "So you want to build a Turbo Pinto? Parts 1 & 2."  One thing that always rings true for me is when I say, "On a scale of 1-10 it looks like a 2 on paper, but in reality it is a hard 7."


http://www.fordpinto.com/general-pinto-talk/so-you-want-to-build-a-turbo-pinto-part-1/msg76893/#msg76893

http://www.fordpinto.com/general-pinto-talk/so-you-want-to-build-a-turbo-pinto-part-2/msg76894/#msg76894

Greymare

Hello all! I am thinking about doing a home built turbo setup with a blow through carb setup. I have seen the ebay turbo kits for as little as $500. I have the skills to make the rest of it work. I read up on converting the stock carb to a blow through and it seems pretty easy. I have a 2.3 auto right now and want to install a turbo and a T5. This car will be my DD so its not about having extra power for hot rodding it although I am sure the extra power will  be nice. I want it more for fuel mileage which means I will be going low boost.

Here are some of my questions for you folks.
1) What kind of Mileage are you getting from you 2.3 turbo setup? (Also what kind of setup are you running? Boost level, Turbo size, trans, gears, fuel source, ect.....)
2) What kind of Boost will the stock engine handle?
3) Anyone here ever done a home built turbo setup with or without blow through carb?

I am sure there will be more questions later but this will be a good start to see if this is really the directions I want to go.

Thanks in advance for any and all help!


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