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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

front page SEMA warning

Started by Srt, December 30, 2008, 03:34:03 AM

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Srt

Quote from: entropy on May 05, 2010, 12:06:03 AM
Strong message follows:

Barak Obama and his party can shampoo my crotch.


That is all.

-E-
;D

My sentiments exactly.
the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

Carolina Boy

If November doesn't have a good outcome from republicans (taking back Congress), Seccession anyone?????
If life gives you a lemon, squeeze it in your moonshine and buy a Pinto.

entropy

Strong message follows:

Barak Obama and his party can shampoo my crotch.


That is all.

-E-
1972 Hoonabout
SBF swap
-308 cid
-CNC ported Brodix heads
-Edelbrock Super Victor intake
-QuickFuel 750 double pumper built by Siebert
-Single stage NOS Cheater system
8" rear 4.11 posi
G-Force 5 Speed
10 point rollcage


450-ish rwhp on motor.....something a bit more than that on the spray

pintomagic

These guys , just want all your money . Is the status symbol better ?
There are alot of crooks in Gov,t . In Canada too .
Alot of them are members of secret societies . learn about them , who really runs the country . Yours and mine .

Carolina Boy

Only one left there Blu, Belem the Bold, 17 hands.  :rolleye:
If life gives you a lemon, squeeze it in your moonshine and buy a Pinto.

blupinto

He's a cavalryman. CB has a horse or two...
One can never have too many Pintos!

smallfryefarm

CB when they git done kissin your :showback: they can kiss my  :showback: to.
when ever  you get ready to start blowin the horn i will bring the horses.  :mad:


CB better wear your old pants the horses are miniture and your knees might drag
Smallfryefarms Horsepower Ranch

78txpony

I just LOVE being a rebel!!  ;D ;D ;D

I love my country, but I hate what is happening to it and hate even more to think what it will be like when I retire...
If my cars ARE banned, I will just have to open a museum and profit from it.
They surely cannot (read WILL NOT) take my own cars from me as long as I am alive...
-Rob Young
1978 Pinto Pony sedan (Old Faithful) a.k.a. "the Tramp"
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thelonerider2005/sets
1972 Cutlass Supreme Convertible (442 clone) -"Lady" (My mistress...)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robsalbum/sets
1986 Cutlass Supreme Coupe - "Pristine"
1997 H-D Sportster

Carolina Boy

Now I am really scared of "THAT" government. I'll say now that I WILL NOT CONFORM!!!!! They cas kiss my :showback: :nocool: :mad:
Thanks for enlighting us to Dictator Obamy and his Socialist Comrades. Time to stock up!
Now do you believe we can't vote our way out of this? ^Time for a military coup?
If life gives you a lemon, squeeze it in your moonshine and buy a Pinto.

popbumper

Methinks Civil war is on the way. If the gov. thinks that citizens who have lived under freedom ever since the Constitution was ratified are gonna put up with all this stuff, they got it wrong.

It's sad times in America. You know, people are >never< happy. When is the last time a seated President was admonished by a greater percentage of the population? Lots of people hated previous presidents - hmmm...they don't seem so bad now, do they? People so lauded Bush - who at least cared about the country, and tried to protect it. Perfect President? Nah - but who was? THIS current AntiChrist?

People asked for change. To what end? Because the country was so downtrodden? Fools - how can anyone actually BELIEVE that things would always be great, that our world would be at peace, that our economy would always be wonderful, that people would be in the same jobs forever? EVERYTHING in life exists on cycles - the weather, our health, jobs, trends, etc. To think things would always be great is mere foolishness.

And now, with the vote of "change", you will get it. You will get the change that the people who were ELECTED want - not the change YOU want. The problem is, once the wrong people get into power, and start pushing agendas which literally tear at the fabric of our social, moral and ethical beliefs, you have big trouble.

People are greedy. People expect something for nothing. People expect fairness. People expect equal rights and treatment. WAKE UP people. All of these things are what people in Communist North Korea, Communist China, and Socialist Russia GET. They are poor, they have no rights (which IS an "equal right), they have no say in anything. Apparently this is what America wants, because they voted in the man who will hand it to them - The Socialist, non-citizen, non-American, power and greed loving mongrel who promised EVERYTHING to the common man, but couldn't give a damn.

Gee....sounds like so many other world leaders, no?

And finally, here on the PCCA board, reading all of this, I have to ask myself - am I wasting so much time and money on this car? Yes, I probably am. I suppose it would be a better idea to buy a Prius, paint my roof white, plaster my car with vegetarian and anti-fur messages, install solar panels, learn to endure heat better so I don't burn fossil fuels, spend less time breathing so I can reduce my carbon footprint, and watch Oprah, who is, after all, one of His Majesty's biggest fans.

Maybe, just maybe then - I'd fit in with the current American vision.  :showback:

Chris 
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

pintoman2.0

I just happened to read the first posts to this. I had to laugh my head off. You guys are complaining about how hard the next four years are? Wait 'till you see H.J. Res. 5.             

  House Considers Repealing 22nd Amendment

Earlier this year, Rep. Jose Serrano, D-N.Y. introduced H. J. Res. 5, a
bill that would repeal the Constitution's 22nd Amendment which prohibits a president from
being elected to more than two terms i office, thus potentially paving the way to make Barack Obama president for life. Not surprisingly, the corporate media currently caught up
in Obama-mania has not covered this story.

"Will George W. Bush end up being the last true U.S. President?" asked Sher
Zieve, writing for the Canadian Free Press on Januar 14. " As I warned you
on mulple times20prior to the 2008 General Election,

'Once Obama is elected, we won't be able to get rid of him.' Tragically, this
warning is now being realized. Not only has Obama established his election-fraud
organization ACORN nationwide, his adherents have now begun the process to
repeal the U.S. Constitution's 22nd A mendment."

See the proof on any of these websites.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=hj111-5
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-hj5/show
http://www.washingtonwatch.com/bills/show/111_HJ_5.html


Lets repeal the 22nd amendment so the "Chosen One" can become our new supreme dictator for life! We better get our $2500 a piece for them now or we will be outlaws later, We will have invested our time and money in something we can't use or sell.

Hey Feinstein!!! :showback:

Wittsend

I wonder if this related to things like when Shelby found 40+ Cobra chassis with 1966 VIN #'s.  My assumption is that under the old law they were 1966 cars regardless of the fact that they did not became a viable car until 30+ years later.

Anyway, my '73 Pinto has a Pinto "designed" motor.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

Tom

Pintosopher

Wittsend, SRT,
From what I've been able to determine: As of today there is no Change on the CA smog check web site regarding "Production" Automobiles and engine swap or Even Classic Pre-76 exemptions.
It appears that the cars described aren't in the "production definition" unless they are Reproductions "kit cars" and then are allowed to be titled as the model year as represented, then they are subject to Emissions testing to verify impact as assembled. Then the SEMA Kit may be imposed to register the car. OR the engine can be certified as emissions legal if the engine used is untampered with internally and just installed as previously used in the Donor car.
Our current engine swap guidelines and "exemptions" by model year for "production line vehicles" is really the big question. I've always said in the California market, that early pre-76 VIN is worth a lot. That may not be the case in the future.

Clear as MUD , Right?

Pintosopher
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

Srt

I too am a bit unclear but it does seem to be that under this 'program' if you have a modified or 'custom' vehicle that is not your ungodly typical chevy sb based car or truck or rod;  then (it appears) you may be out of luck.  that ain't good.

I'm looking at the wording of the bill itself.  It's 'legaleze' and as such it is meant to confuse.
the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

Wittsend

Well, in my case I brought over everything (EGR, vapor recovery) Etc. And, of course the engine is EFI already.

But, what ever happened to the "no smog" for 1975 and older cars (in California)?  Has that been done away with? Or does this just apply to "kit cars?"

Tom

Pintosopher

Wittsend, and All,
I went into the details of the law on the SEMA site and , the Pinto would be classified as a "custom" car if over 25 years old and built after 1948. If the laws apply, your Turbo pinto would be required to be certified by a referee by either the standards for a engine alone ( by engine model year and type) OR by vehicle chassis year of Manufacture (or model year represented by Kit or reproduction Mfr.)
This spell the death knoll for carbureted Custom and street rod vehicles, IF they do away with the Referee Certification of aftermarket equipment as a condition of equipment exemptions. Only the "kit" components would be allowed, and all cars would be EFI with catalyst exhaust and OBD controls.
The current Engine swap guidelines left no latitude for Modded engines in a swap situation. All of the emissions controls had to be carried over.
  The problem isn't the equipment, it's the attempt to "standardize" retrofitting so the visual inspection is easier , and the cars are more likely to pass certification.
  What's really dangerous in this law , is the clause that the Vehicle NOT be used for daily transportation! :hangover: :mad:
  Not acceptable, not for a group of vehicles that has little impact on air quality. If it passes the emissions, regardless of equipment installed, it should be licensed for ANY Use!

Pintosopher
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

Wittsend

This SEMA based "Green Rod" thing sounds a little scary to me.  More scary in fact than the Clunker Law.  Am I reading it right, cars like my Turbo Pinto fall into this catagory?  It seems like a way for SEMA manufactures to have laws that help them sell products. Is that really in our best interest?

Anyway, correct me if I'm wrong.  But if I'm right this is not in the "hobbiest" interest.
Tom

Srt

Pintosopher I agree wholeheartedly.  I've been thinking & writing to every one here in the Kalifornia gov about this.  As well I've been writing avery one of our reps/senators in DC also. 

We NEED to get this rolling and KEEP it rolling.  This is really drastic.
the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

Pintosopher

Hey SRT,
Thanks for the links, I sent the "clunkers update" to Scott for front page update.
I also sent the  Oregon Tire legislation to my brother in Oregon. He has been through some hoops just keeping His Prius in "low rolling resistance" tires. I'll bet the tire dealer chains are about to flip over this one, not to mention off road 4WD people.
In 1991 Oregon tried to pass a 1 Dollar a lap tax on all motorsports tracks to fund a DEQ Sound enforcement position. We all had fun on that one in the Capitol hearings. Imagine 1 dollar a lap for all tracks: Karts, Motocross, Sprints ,Stocks , even autocross in parking lots.
These nuts have got to be stopped!!!

Get real people, they are out of control!

Pintosopher
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

Srt

the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

Srt

From Hotrod Hotline-Society of Land Speed Racing Historians:

".....California has enacted a Bill to allow illegally registered hot rods to avoid prosecution and fines. You have from January 1 through December 31, 2010 to request amnesty and register your car and avoid penalties. It includes a kit to reduce smog pollution and will make your car legal. While the state of California admits that they are the ones who set up the categories, it is the owner of the vehicles that have lapsed into the new illegalities due to updates in the law. Some 70,000 hot rodders are now on the roads with cars that do not fit any legal categories for registration, even if at one time they did. SEMA General Counsel Russ Deane announced the new legislation, called the "Green Rod Project." Retrofitting is required. For more info, see www.sema.org
the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

Srt

Quote from: pintosopher on February 08, 2009, 02:21:25 PM
Scott,
If you posted this upgrade, many thanks...

Pintosopher

Yeah...same here.  No reason we need to sit still while they try to take over.  I remember back in the 60's when a certain USSR premier said that the USA would be taken over without a shot being fired. 

The current climate in Washington makes it seem that he has plenty of converts.
the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

Scott Hamilton

Yellow 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
Green 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
White 73, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
The Lemon, the Lime and the Coconut, :)

Pintosopher

Scott,
If you posted this upgrade, many thanks...

Pintosopher
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

discolives78

I agree that Lee Iacocca was way ahead of his time, and managed to be in the right place at the right time at least twice. Let's remember the trouble the automakers were in around the early 80's. Lee not only gave birth to the Pinto/Mustang II, but was responsible for pulling Chrysler back from the brink with the K cars and minivans. Let's all speak up so we can drive whatever we want.

My short $.02 :afro:
Chuck


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

beegle55

Wow that article from the LA Times really grinds my gears. Lee Iacocca was wayyy before his time with his automotive genius and you simply cannot throw him into the pan with the boneheads shacked up in Detroit today. He was the EXACT OPPOSITE of the leaders of the 'Big 3' that stand today. He was working to battle the Japanese auto market by introducing the Pinto after many many blocks by a very traditional Henry Ford II by offering affordability and economy. Safety wasn't a top priority back then with ANY automaker domestic or foreign. Iacocca was taking a gamble by offering a car to a then small target market and he was sure his insight was way ahead of his time. And it was. What to American's want now? Fuel economy. He wasn't arguing against economy because that wasn't a top priority. He was arguing against safety because it would add to the cost; which was what Americans wanted back then, a good deal. It's not about what the government wants, you have to fight that if you know what you want is right. That is NOT the situation in today's auto market. Automakers have completely missed the target and now can't sell a car because they can't give the people what they want because they don't know unlike Iacocca's situation. The government does need to step in but not "Cash for Clunkers" or anything like that. They need to put worthy presidents into the spot of our crackheads in Detroit, especially at GM. Ford still can hold it's own even though they need a little reworking too. Just my very very very long two cents. Sorry it is so long. I just hate when people bash Iacocca. If anyone actually reads this, thanks for the consideration.

    -beegle55
2005 Jeep GC 5.7 HEMI
1993 Ford Mustang
1991 Ford Mustang GT
1988 Ford Mustang
1980 Ford Pinto Cruising- Mint, Fully documented
1979 Ford Pinto Trunk- 2.3L 4 speed
1978 Ford Pinto HB- 302 drag car
1976 Ford Pinto Runabout- 40,000 mi, V6
1972 Ford Maverick Grabber (real)
1970 Ford Mustang 302

Srt

And along the lines of restricting our freedom/common sense/ability to think/self determination etc-etc-etc.....comes this, in a major (liberal) metropolitan 'rag..

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hiltzik29-2009jan29,0,7499793.column

...this is an excerpt...read the whole column.

"......The Ford Pinto was basically a dynamite stick with a tailpipe, so strapping passengers in with shoulder belts rather than giving them ejection seats may have been the wrong choice.)...."

I wonder if he knows or knew anyone who owns or owned one.
are you willing to let others speak for you??


Here is a list of state legislators countrywide, who are automotive enthusiasts.  Write them, call them.  Be respectful and thoughtful, they will listen but it is not only them who needs to hear our concerns.  We ned to contact the members of our government who are not so enthusiastic about our concerns.  In California they would be: Pelosi.Boxer,Feinstein.Waxman and Nevada; Reid

This list is federal members

http://www.bipac.net/page.asp?g=SEMA&content=caucus_members&parent=SEMA

This list is state enthusiast members

http://www.semasan.com/main/main.aspx?id=61681

the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

Pintosopher

Hi people,
Yep, I'm back to reiterate that this is a serious threat to our Hobby and the first of many Bad bills that will impact our freedom of choice. Just dodged another California Smog check bullet on my completely Original 1 owner 1984 VW GTI w/157k on Odo. Passed real clean too! But the State has it listed as a High emitter vehicle in their I/M program.
You get one guess what they (US EPA ) will do if this "Cash For Clunker" bill becomes law. Pintos will be in the bullseye of that target. Does $500 dollars for a buyout sound fair for your beloved rides.
They'll be after the "classic" cars next, you'll be paying huge vehicle " Carbon Tax penalties" just to operate one on the roads.
Face it people, California is the guinea pig, if it passes here, it will become a national agenda.

I know it's cold and freezing out there, But typing letters to Congress and your state legislatures will keep your fingers warm. Get going or you will need a Bus pass to get around.

Pintosopher, and yes the British aren't coming... Pelosi is!
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

dave1987

Out of the frying pan into the fire!

Once we save our hobby, we divert it to the entire automotive spectrum! Come on guys, let's kick this one out of the game too so EVERYONE can have the satisfaction of driving whatever they want to, when they want to.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

turbopinto72

UPDATE :


Dear Fellow Enthusiast,

Last month, we sent you an Urgent Legislative Alert from The Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA) regarding a proposed "Cash for Clunkers" bill that would threaten our hobby. Thanks to your overwhelming response, this legislation was dropped from the economic stimulus package. Congratulations for standing up for your rights as enthusiasts!

We have just received a follow-up Legislative Alert from SEMA. New legislation (S. 247 and H.R. 520) has been introduced in Congress to create a national vehicle scrappage program which will give U.S. tax dollars to consumers who turn-in their "gas guzzlers" to have them crushed. This program would target vehicles with low fuel economy ratings of any model year. That means sports cars, SUVs, and performance-built vehicles could be crushed in exchange for a monetary reward.

The following information is directly from SEMA. If you would like to contact the lawmaker, follow the instructions in the alert.


Thank you for your time,

Your Friends at Summit Racing Equipment

 



Our effort to prevent Congress from including a nationwide "Cash for Clunkers" program in the economic stimulus package has been successful – so far. Thousands of SEMA members and SEMA Action Network (SAN) enthusiasts contacted House Speaker Nancy Pelosi in opposition to the plan. The Speaker's Office informed us that your emails, calls and faxes were received and, thanks to your work, Cash for Clunkers was not included in the economic stimulus package introduced in mid-January in the House of Representatives. Unfortunately, new legislation (S. 247 and H.R. 520) has been introduced in Congress to create a national vehicle scrappage program which will give U.S. tax dollars to consumers who turn-in their "gas guzzlers" to have them crushed. Lawmakers need to scrap this idea!

Contact Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) and Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA) Immediately
to Oppose S. 247 and H.R. 520

The so-called "Accelerated Retirement of Inefficient Vehicles Act" is Cash for Clunkers with a twist. Instead of focusing exclusively on older cars, this program would target vehicles with low fuel economy ratings of any model year. Participants would receive cash vouchers ranging from $2,500 to $4,500 based on the model year and whether the replacement vehicle was a more fuel-efficient new car or used car (MY 2004 or later). Fuel-efficient is defined as getting at least 25 percent better mileage for the corporate average fuel economy (CAFE) target for its class. The bill sponsors want to scrap up to one million cars a year for at least four years.

There is no evidence that the program would achieve the goal of boosting new car sales or increasing fuel mileage. Many states have considered scrappage programs in the past as a way to help clean the air or increase mpg, but abandoned the effort because they simply don't work. The programs are not cost-effective and do not achieve verifiable air quality or fuel economy benefits, but they do have a devastating impact on the many small businesses that market products and services for the scrapped cars.

Don't Delay! Please contact Senator Diane Feinstein and Rep. Henry Waxman today to urge their opposition to S. 247 and H.R. 520. For those who responded to our first call for action, we need you again, along with everyone else.

Contact Sen. Dianne Feinstein to oppose S. 247
Click here to send an email: http://feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=ContactUs.EmailMe
Call: (202) 224-3841
Fax: (202) 228-3954

Contact Henry Waxman to oppose HR 520
Click here to send an email: http://energycommerce.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&=view&id=1313&Itemid=1
Call: (202) 225-2927
Fax: (202) 225-2525


Talking Points
Oppose the Use of U.S. Taxpayer Dollars for Accelerated Vehicle Retirement

I am writing to urge lawmakers not to approve an "accelerated vehicle retirement" program. Even on a voluntary basis, the program will hurt thousands of independent repair shops, auto restorers, customizers and their customers across the country that depend on the used car market. These businesses are already very vulnerable in the weak economy.

An accelerated vehicle retirement program is flawed since it does not target the "gross polluter," an improperly maintained vehicle of any make or model year that has poor fuel mileage and dramatically more emissions due to poor maintenance.

An accelerated vehicle retirement program is flawed because it does not factor-in how many miles-a-year the collected vehicles are currently being driven. U.S. taxpayers will be buying rarely-driven second and third vehicles that have minimal impact on overall fuel economy and air pollution.

Accelerated vehicle retirement won't generate many new car sales. The cash incentive provided will not be enough to enable a person to buy a new or used vehicle.

Accelerated vehicle retirement will compete with nonprofits that rely on vehicle donations to raise funds, such as the Salvation Army, the Purple Heart and other charities.

Accelerated vehicle retirement threatens to disrupt a large and complex industry which already handles scrappage, repair, remanufacturing and recycling issues. This independent industry provides thousands of American jobs and generates millions of dollars in local, state and federal tax revenues.

Accelerated vehicle retirement ignores better policy options. Taxpayer dollars would be better spent as direct tax incentives to purchase a fuel-efficient new or used car, without a government vehicle crushing program. Congress should also provide tax incentives to upgrade, repair and maintain existing cars, trucks and SUVs. There are many commercially available products and technologies that can substantially improve fuel mileage and lower the emissions.

We hope we can count on you to reject "Accelerated Vehicle Retirement." Thank you for your consideration on this very important matter.
If you choose to send a note and/or message to Sen. Feinstein and Rep. Waxman please forward a copy of your message to:
E-mail: briand@sema.org

Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto


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