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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

PCCA Mini Meet- "THE OHIO GET TOGETHER" July 12th 2008

Started by jimspinto, March 23, 2008, 09:29:30 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

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ADaughen

Hey guys!

I just got back to the internets from my week of vacation.

Thanks to all the guys who bought my stuff and I have more news from more of my trip...

My wife's Uncle gave, yes, GAVE me two 8.8" spools, 3.73 gears, and poly bushings for my car. :D

Her cousin, *might* have a cam for me... 
'78 Cruisin' Wagon

jimspinto



  I just looked on here, and see ALMOST 4700 views, and OVER 125 posts.  Its sure an example of how great ALL OF YOU PINTO OWNERS ARE.  And SEVEN PAGES, WOW !
I cant get over how successfull the meet was, and again, 4700 hits & 125 posts is an example of what kind of people you are.

I want to (again ?) thank each & every one of you for making a GREAT meet and an OUTSTANDING time come about.  Couldn't have done it without you ! ! !

I would think that sooner or latter, the "webmaster(s)" will shut this part of the site down, as the meet is over.  Until then, I will be checking here for any notes or messages, but thought I'd take advantage of it still being here to (again ?) say THANK YOU.

Your a great bunch of people, and I look forward to seeing, talking to you all.  Best Jim at jimspinto

jimspinto

Quote from: postalpony on July 14, 2008, 09:47:27 PM
Hey Jim, Hey Jim, Hey Jim, Hey you old Fart!!!
Now that I have your attention, I would like to extend my services in the process
of pampering your other VERY fine cars, which was Mike, & I's privilege to
see---Thank you very much.  Call or e-mail me when you need a driver or another
broken down old fart to talk to.


                                     We have to stick together, 'cause there ain't many
                                      of our kind left--You know what I'am saying!!

                                                      Love Ya Man Dick

   Thanks, Old man------  If I ever need a driver, I'll let you know

    Anyway, how far (time) is it to your place ?

     Talk with you latter, I'm suppossedly tending to the other cars, not spending time on here.   Best,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Jim

postalpony

Hey Jim, Hey Jim, Hey Jim, Hey you old Fart!!!
Now that I have your attention, I would like to extend my services in the process
of pampering your other VERY fine cars, which was Mike, & I's privilege to
see---Thank you very much.  Call or e-mail me when you need a driver or another
broken down old fart to talk to.


                                     We have to stick together, 'cause there ain't many
                                      of our kind left--You know what I'am saying!!

                                                      Love Ya Man Dick
1980 Hatchback was a "Postal Unit" on the
west coast in it's early life. Now residing
in Ohio, But we don't haul the U.S. Mail anymore;
Now all we do is HAUL!
5th gear 4700 rpm & still pullin'= 113+  mph

UPDATE-83.762 mph in 4th gear As verified by a W Va State Trooper-WITH 1 GEAR TO GO 6-2-11

jimspinto


  Jumped back on here because theres another issue..........

  I have several other cars, that have been neglected because of the Pinto and the meet.

  Just to calm them down (or try to) I will have to take them all out for a spin

  This will possibly take the rest of the summer, but I will realy have to bite the bullet, and suffer thru it though, just to make them all happy.

  So, if you dont hear from me that often, its because of the punishment I will have to suffer (all summer long) for neglecting the other cars.

  Thanks again & again for the opportunity and the great meet, sure was fun !

best,,,Jim at jimspinto

jimspinto

Quote from: Scott Hamilton on July 13, 2008, 08:04:21 PM
Holy Crap Guys!

You had a fantastic Meet!

I'm diggin it!


   Thanks Guy,

       I'v been talking with Frank (both by phone & computer) and he put alot of effort and help into the meet also.  So thanks to him also.

      It was a fantastic meet and alot of fun (sure worth the time & work, I will gladly do it again next year)  What a great bunch of Pinto owners (and Pinto's} here in Ohio (don't forget Mich.)   I'm going to (try to) set up a group in my address book, so's we can keep in touch etc.

     I'v already received several emails (even a phone call) telling me how much fun everyone had.  I just couldn't be happier, so while I'm sending this, I want to take the time to thank all those who attended

    Thanks again and best to all,,,,,,Jim at jimspinto

Scott Hamilton

Holy Crap Guys!

You had a fantastic Meet!

I'm diggin it!
Yellow 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
Green 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
White 73, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
The Lemon, the Lime and the Coconut, :)

turbo74pinto

http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/ford371/

here are all the pics i took.  i felt the turn out was great too.  good times and good  cars.  next time ill be sure mine is going....no dragging of the feet.

jim, is there a cruise every saturday night there?  if there is, ill bring mine up there when i get it going this summer.

bob
Take a job big or small, do it right or not at all.

FlyerPinto

Jim,

I'll get you the e-mail list out yet today. I'm on my way out the door at the moment, but I'll be back in a few hours and will get it done for you then.

FlyerPinto/Matthew
1977 Bobcat HB
1977 Bobcat HB
1978 Pinto Cruising Wagon

So many projects, so little time...

phils toys

Quote from: jimspinto on July 13, 2008, 08:27:59 AM


   #1   Whoever has the "email addresses" (and that was a great idea) could you please send them to me.  I'd like to (try) set-up a group, a pinto group, in my contact / address book.  I'm not very good with a computer, but I think I could stumble thru it if I had the addresses

  #2   Those of you (us) who took pictures, PLEASE, PLEASE, send them to Frank Canon and / or me.  I'm thinking that some of the ones I took will come out (even thou I didnt know how to work that "high tech" camera)

   Thanks again for everything,  Your all a great bunch, it was wonderful to see you and your pintos,,,,,,,,,Jim  
#1  that is Flyerpinto
#2 Get the pic to Cookieboy and he will make a video ( there were at least 4 cameras   that i saw)
Phils toys
2006, 07,08 ,10 Carlisle 3rd stock pinto 4 years same place
2007 PCCA East Regional Best Wagon
2008 CAHS Prom Coolest Ride
2011,2014 pinto stampede

jimspinto

Quote from: Pintony on July 13, 2008, 08:31:07 AM
Hello Jim,
YES a VERY NICE Pinto wagon indeed
From Pintony

  You got it, the pictures.  I'm sure I can make the camera work (now)

   Thanks again,,,Jim

jimspinto

 
   I jumped back on here because I forgot something (theres no need for any comments from the "old guys"]

   #1   Whoever has the "email addresses" (and that was a great idea) could you please send them to me.  I'd like to (try) set-up a group, a pinto group, in my contact / address book.  I'm not very good with a computer, but I think I could stumble thru it if I had the addresses

  #2   Those of you (us) who took pictures, PLEASE, PLEASE, send them to Frank Canon and / or me.  I'm thinking that some of the ones I took will come out (even thou I didnt know how to work that "high tech" camera)

   Thanks again for everything,  Your all a great bunch, it was wonderful to see you and your pintos,,,,,,,,,Jim   

jimspinto


  TO EVERYONE, even those who were unlucky enough to have missed the meet.

                       ------------------    I think it was "fantastic"  ---------------------

  Was wonderful to see all those great Pintos, and of course there owners.  I wonder if those Pintos know how lucky they are to have such great owners

   Even though it rained in the afternoon (wasn't forcast to rain] Everyone had a good time, and believe me, I would (will) do it again.

  Dinner was good also, it was great of the Amish Resturant to set-aside a room especially for us

   I want to take the time to thank everyone who came, also thank Frank for his help and the vinal stickers

   I cant say enough about Pinto owner as a group, great bunch of guys & girls, and for those of you who missed it, you sure missed a great time. Hope you can make it next year

   THANK YOU, EVERYONE,,,,,,,,Jim

jimspinto

Quote from: Pintony on July 12, 2008, 10:21:22 PM
Looks like a really nice turnout!!!
GREAT job gentlemen and lady!!!!!
Did anyone get a shot of the interior for the Green 73 wagon???
From Pintony

  Is that mine your tslking about ? -- 
Think it was the only Green 73, but I'm so tired I cant even remember. --
  I still have my daughters camera (it can take photos that can be emailed, new tech & I'm old)  I will take a few shorts of the interior.  --
Dont know what the next step is (to post them and all) but my daughter knows and they will (all of them} follow

   Jim at jimspinto

dga57

Looks like you guys (and gal) had a wonderful time out there!  Wish I could have come.  Between making it to both Carlisle and Tulsa this year, I saw more Pintos last month than I had seen in the past twenty years or so!  It appears that you had some great ones in Ohio today too!
Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

FCANON

Thats Great... I was wondering if the weather was going to hold out for your guys... I dig the pic's as well...

FrankBoss
www.pintoworks.com   www.tirestopinc.com
www.stophumpingmytown.com
www.FrankBoss.com

phils toys

here is a link to my photos  please let me know  what i labled wrong
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/z206/Philstoys/ohio%20meet/
philstoys
2006, 07,08 ,10 Carlisle 3rd stock pinto 4 years same place
2007 PCCA East Regional Best Wagon
2008 CAHS Prom Coolest Ride
2011,2014 pinto stampede

phils toys

We had a good meet  7 pintos and  2 other members  pic will be up soon.
thanks jim  for organizing it and Frang  for the  stickers.
phils toys
2006, 07,08 ,10 Carlisle 3rd stock pinto 4 years same place
2007 PCCA East Regional Best Wagon
2008 CAHS Prom Coolest Ride
2011,2014 pinto stampede

jimspinto

Quote from: ADaughen on July 12, 2008, 12:57:09 AM
Jim,

I just wanted to let you know... I have the spare tire cover.  I packed it along with the rest of my goodies.  :)

See you all around ~10:30am

   Thanks Guy,  see you there ---------------

    Not going to start a new post, just to say---   Its saturday morning, and a wonderful morning at that.  I'm moving on, get to the meeting place, set up the sign and etc. 
   ------------------- HOPE TO SEE YOU THERE, HAVE A HAPPY DAY---------------------   

         Jim at jimspinto

ADaughen

Jim,

I just wanted to let you know... I have the spare tire cover.  I packed it along with the rest of my goodies.  :)

See you all around ~10:30am
'78 Cruisin' Wagon

phils toys

I will be heading out in about 6 hrs after a nap.
phils toys
2006, 07,08 ,10 Carlisle 3rd stock pinto 4 years same place
2007 PCCA East Regional Best Wagon
2008 CAHS Prom Coolest Ride
2011,2014 pinto stampede

jimspinto

Quote from: pintoman on July 11, 2008, 06:26:30 PM
I will be heading out about 7 am.See every one tomorrow.

  Great, see you then.  Its about 11:30 pm, I'm just finishing up some details.  Then off to bed (cause I'm damm tired)  But I will be there early saturday morning, looking for everyone. 
  Look for the P.C.C.A. sign (its Frank Canon's be sure to thank him for it)

   Best,,,,,,,Jim at jimspinto

pintoman

I will be heading out about 7 am.See every one tomorrow.
05 Pigon Forge Meet, 06 Carlile Meet Coordinator 06-07 Carlile Regional, Brief Case Award (ask)

jimspinto



   I forgot something,,  PLEASE BRING YOUR CAMERA ! ! !

    Re.  Frank Canon,,,,,,,,,,,,  "take lots of pictures"

    Gota run, I'm late (as usual)

      Jim at jimspinto

jimspinto

Quote from: ADaughen on July 11, 2008, 09:03:37 AM
Sounds good.  I'll bring it along, too.

Jim,

Just to clarify, your early post said ~3pm.  The newest post says ~10am.

   THANKS,  And to "clarify"

   Cant remember  what the h*** I said about 3pm.  You younger folks have this to look forward to (memory).   However, anybody can of course do what ever they want. the objective would be to HAVE FUN.
   What I have planed (planed out) is to meet early in the morning, was hopeing for about 10am,  then do the "convoy - cruise"  --  A tour of the amish settelments, with a few stops at amish shops.  gfit shops,  a homemade jelly shop etc.  Then a stop for lunch (at an amish family style place, its very nice & low cost).  Then back to the meeting place.  Theres a cruise going on (starts at 5pm).  Hopefully there will be lots of other cars (none pinto) to view, and they will make a big thing of us being there

  I still have alot to do, signs and all, just jumped on here to see if anyone had any questions.  Been to the store and picked up some welcomeing gifts etc.  Have to make up the "goodie bags" and etc.   Frank Canon was nice enough to make up the "Ohio Get Together" stickers (and there real nice, you'l like them)  Evetything, weather and all, is looking good, see you saturday

  I had a thought, will say something about it saturday, but also put it down here so's those who see it can give it some thought also
  Thought what if we had a raffle of sorts.  with the cost of a ticket on the higher side (maybe $5.00 or $10.00 each) winer gets all the money.  Could even get high enough to pay for the gasoline back home (ha ha)

  best to all,,,,,,,,,Jim at jimspinto

ADaughen

Sounds good.  I'll bring it along, too.

Jim,

Just to clarify, your early post said ~3pm.  The newest post says ~10am.
'78 Cruisin' Wagon

jimspinto

Quote from: ADaughen on July 10, 2008, 10:53:17 AM

What model/year?

I think I could dig out the one in my '78 Wagon if you need it.
Sorry, I should have put that down.   Mine is a 73 sta. wag.,  guess a 78 would work, but dont know.  If your coming and can bring it, do so

   Thanks, Jim at jimspinto

phils toys

looked through my extra non needed parts
green driverside kick panel
13 ' aluminum slot. screw broke off for center
center cap with out center
1 dog dish  hub cap
radio bezel has been cut for different radio
phils toys
2006, 07,08 ,10 Carlisle 3rd stock pinto 4 years same place
2007 PCCA East Regional Best Wagon
2008 CAHS Prom Coolest Ride
2011,2014 pinto stampede

ADaughen

Quote from: jimspinto on July 08, 2008, 03:42:05 PM
    P.S.  What I could use (if anyone had such a thing] is the plastic that goes over the spare tire, acts as the floor,is covered by the rug


What model/year?

I think I could dig out the one in my '78 Wagon if you need it.
'78 Cruisin' Wagon

jimspinto

Quote from: phils toys on July 08, 2008, 01:22:10 PM
Are we  going to do the swap meet ? if so list what you have or need.
phils toys.

   I myself only have two items,  #1 a kick panel (dont even remember what side its for) and  #2 a 14 inch wheel.  How lucky am I,  ? ?

  However, I suggest that you'd bring anything that could fit in the car,  you never know what somebody'd want / need.  And a swape is always fun.

   Best to all, and see you there,,,,,,,,,,,,Jim at jimspinto

   P.S.  What I could use (if anyone had such a thing] is the plastic that goes over the spare tire, acts as the floor,is covered by the rug


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