Mini Classifieds

1973 Ford Pinto Squire Wagon 3 Door

Date: 07/11/2023 11:39 pm
Wanted instrument cluster lens for 74
Date: 04/30/2023 04:31 pm
1976-1980 A/C condensor

Date: 09/21/2020 10:43 pm
2.0 Cyl Head1973
Date: 11/29/2018 12:51 pm
1978 PINTO PONY FOR SALE 17,000 ORIGINAL MILES !!!!!!!
Date: 10/10/2019 10:02 pm
need 1978 pinto guage cluster
Date: 03/07/2021 07:35 am
1975 rear end, 8 inch, drum brakes, and axles, 3.4 gear.

Date: 11/08/2019 10:01 am
1970-1973 Gas Tank/Blue Dash
Date: 02/07/2019 11:57 pm
Need lower control arms for 1973 pinto
Date: 02/27/2017 10:10 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
  • Total Members: 7,892
  • Latest: Tanar_D
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,565
  • Total Topics: 16,275
  • Online today: 537
  • Online ever: 1,681 (March 09, 2025, 10:00:10 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 170
  • Total: 170
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Installing a rear seal 2.0 SOHC Pinto

Started by The Lola Registry, July 20, 2006, 03:42:13 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

goodolboydws

I forgot to mention that for many installations, it is possible to use a very small amount of sealer on the seals' shell as a lubricant and to better seal any low spots in the recess.

goodolboydws

You asked for tips.

The most common causes of problems installing new one piece seals of this type, are usually associated with not having cleaned out the recess for the seal well enough, or damage to the recess into which the seal has to be driven. Damage to the recess is frequently there from a prior installation or removal, but can also be from having just nicked the machined surfaces yourself while removing the seal this last time.

Sometimes with a stubborn seal, it's almost impossible to get the old one out without doing some minor damage that will have to be cleaned up afterwards. Poor technique or not have tools that can do the job cleanly can easily cause daage during seal removal.

This type of metal supported seal is such a tight interference fit, that a few thousandths of an inch of rust or some raised metal from a nick or scratch (that the new seal has to pass on the way in) can make a big difference in how easily the new seal installation goes.

Sometimes there is a build up of rust just slightly above where the edge of the old seal was installed, and if that is coupled with an insufficient larger diameter tapered relief at the outer edge of the hole and with a new, clean seal that is a thousanth of an inch larger O.D. than the old one, it may be just enough to make installation difficult.

Continuing with that thought, many people (even some well-experienced people who should know better) do not realise that by driving a new seal into a dirty or damaged recess they are likely to be compromising the seals' ability to do its job.  By starting with a dirty, damaged or distorted recess, several potential problems can arise.

With rust or any material still remaining in the recess, the seal is likely to dislodge some of the material and shove it ahead of the metal part of the seal (the shell), then trapping it between the shell and the recess. This can prevent the seal from seating fully, which may put the wiping edge onto a different, rougher surface of the shaft than the prior seal was riding, making it prone to leak from day one. Next, if the seal is driven in vigorously, or unevenly,  when the trapped material stops the seal's travel in one part of the recess with enough force, the seal's shell can be driven further in where the debris is NOT stopping it form further movement..This will distort the seals' shell, and the wiping edge as well.


Before trying to install a new seal:

CLEAN, CLEAN, CLEAN that recess. Start with solvent. Follow up with tools, then more solvent. Try to get down to clean metal everywhere.

I have a set of "dental picks" with different shaped scraping edges and ends. These sets are sold inexpensively in tool stores, and their tips are much smaller than any tool you are likely to have on hand. This will enable you to actually clean down into the tight edges of sharp bottomed holes or grooves of practically any accessible recess that yoy are liable to encounter, frequently getting out bits of rust and assorted crud that defy other methods, WITHOUT causing much or any surface damage themselves.

Inspect the metal suface of the housing carefully.

If there is a sharp edge to the outermost part of the recess that the seal has to enter, you WILL have trouble starting a new seal. This edge should have a small taper, even if it's only a few thousandth of an inch deep.  If there isn't a taper, at the very least "break" (or slightly roundover) this edge, using WET emery cloth, or a hand file. Some people use grease on the file to catch the filings, but this tends to make the file cut more slowly and to load up much more quickly. DON'T use power tools, or you will be spraying the metal you are removing around the room (along with pieces of the grinding/cutting tool bit). You can be certain that some of this power driven debris will end up in places that you don't want it to be, and result in more time cleaning or worse.

If there is a HIGH spot that the seal shell has to travel over, you should remove it at least down to the surrounding surface. If there are small LOW spots, (like the bottoms of nicks that have been smoothed down) do not worry about those.

If you have cleaned the seal recess well, and if neither it nor the seal are distorted, the seal should go in fairly easily, if you are using something suitable as a driver.  Many people use UPSIDE DOWN sockets with an extension bar inserted as a seal driver and handle. If the socket is a close match to the O.D. of the seals' shell, this should be something to check first, as most decent sockets are reasonably clean of nicks on their bottoms, as well as having wide, flat surfaces, especially in larger sized sockets. This works fairly well up to a certain size, and then people run out of sockets being large enough.



Many people also use the old seal backwards to drive in the new one, but if you don't have something the right diameter or larger to back up the OLD seal, when driving them this way it's easy for the new seal to go in at an angle, because even if you do have a big headed tool to hit the seal with, your fingers are in the way of a centered strike, so the seal is generally tapped in slowly, while moving the strike point around the diameter continuously.

If you intend to do this a lot, get a seal driver set. Saves you a lot of hassle and scrounging around.
They have stepped metal discs of many diameters, of which most usually attach to the same metal handle, and are available to cover any size that you are liable to need. Goods sets aren't cheap. Cheap sets may work for you.

For seals over about 2", if you don't have a seal driver set, try to have on hand several pieces of metal pipe as well as short sections of thick walled PVC.

For the metal pipes you can use the end of the pipe itself, or better yet, use a fitting to have
something to strike. Use schedule 80 PVC, or maybe schedule 40 as a minimum for the smaller diameters, or to drive narrow shell seals.  You'll need a striking cap for the end of the PVC pipe, and a standard fitting may not be tough enough. Measure the O.D. of each pipe and mark it with a permanent marker.

Now with your homemade pipe drivers, you can use the old seal as the leading edge for driving in a new seal.



Pintony

I instal my rear main seal when I install the rear main cap.
From Pintony

Farmboy

I just did mine in a 2.0, I just used the old seal and tapped it in with it, the new one lost some outside coating but I got it in. I hope to god it dont leak cause I dont want to tear it apart to redo it :peace:
  I do what the voices in my Pinto tell me to do




74 Pinto Wagon
71 Runabout (parts car)

The Lola Registry

Just finished rebuilding a 2.0 SOHC Pinto for a Sports Racer S2, and I just had the worst time installing the rear seal.  The engine is a 71-74 vintage and has a one piece seal.   Push one side in, and the other pops out.  Finally drilled a 3.125" hole in a 2x6 and hammered with no luck.  Finally I clamped one side of the board down with a "C" clamp and hammered to finally seat it in.  Took a small punch to get it home all the way.  Now installing this seal shouldn't be this hard, what am I doing wrong?  Is there a special tool to seat the seal?  Should I have installed the seal prior to assembling the rear crankshaft cap?  I have a few more motors to build so any tips would be great, Thanks Allan


Welcome to FordPinto.com, home of the PCCA - the Pinto Car Club of America. Founded in 1999 with the goal of creating a dedicated meeting place with strong appeal to Ford Pinto and Mercury Bobcat owners and enthusiasts across all generations. Each day new members join the PCCA family expanding the knowledge base and enhancing our community.


Our site offers extensive information, technical and historic as well as live classifieds ads to find what you are looking for. One of our main goals is to save you time, money and a lot of hassle when searching for information about our cars. Not a member of our family yet? Please feel free to sign up
 for a free account and join the informative discussions in the forums when looking for that tidbit of info you seek. We, the members of FordPinto.com look forward to welcoming you to our family and hearing from you. We are here to assist in any way we can.


FordPinto.com supports the development of parts resources or parts re-manufacturing as opportunities arise. We promote the efforts of individuals and companies that endeavor to re-manufacture, sell, or otherwise distribute additional resources for the Ford Pinto or Mercury Bobcat.

As always, we at FordPinto.com encourage comments and suggestions on how we may be able to improve your experience with us. We take what our members have to say very seriously. Don't hesitate to submit your ideas and feedback.

management@fordpinto.com