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1978 pinto brake booster needed.
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1980 Ford Pinto Squire Wagon * All original 1 Owner *

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1980 Pinto Parts

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74 Wagon body parts and a couple of 79 bits

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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

rich problem, the smell of defeat

Started by 82expghost, April 11, 2016, 03:37:49 AM

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65ShelbyClone

The only reason I even know what "resistance welding" is is because they do some where I work. Most of it involves welding mission-critical electrical contacts together.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

oldkayaker

Thanks 65ShelbyClone for the article.  I have not kept up with the times and never seen/noticed that type of splice.  It looks like a more efficient production method and you do not have to worry about using a quality lug. 
Jerry J - Jupiter, Florida

65ShelbyClone

What Ford did is or something like resistance welding. Here is an example, although Ford's production-level welds really do look ugly and smashed, especially after 30 years in a harness collecting dirt and tape goop.

http://www.assemblymag.com/articles/91832-the-splice-is-right

Quote from: 82expghost on April 30, 2016, 09:57:22 PM
Update on my issue,....... FIXED!

Next step was take ecu apart and look at it for anything noticable that would cause issues, took me 10 minutes tracing lines when i saw a bubble in the gelcoat of the board, poked and prodded it and found that signal return was broken on the board. Not burnt in any way, allittle amazed, so my next step was to solder a wire from one point to another and see if that fixes the proble, note to anybody attempting this, use alot of resin, its old and hard to get to act like solder, but i got a 3/4 long wire soldered to it and put it in the car and tested it to see if i still had problems

FULL RANGE OF THROTTLE! woo fixed it!

Bravo! Most people would have stopped at the ECU plug and just gone searching for another computer.

I opened up an '85 PF2 Merkur computer I have and it looks like an old desk phone inside. The only thing it's missing is curvy traces from hand-laid masks. I think they started using surface-mount components on a single board in '86 or '87.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

oldkayaker

Congratulations on finding the finding the problem, amazing tenacity.  I do not recall ever reading about a circuit board trace separating like yours did.  Spare components including computers come in very handy when trouble shooting.  Having refurbished the wiring harness, you have headed off some future problems.  In addition to having a running car, you now have a more intimate knowledge of your car's inner workings (maybe more than desired).

It finally occurred to me what "smashed" connection meant.  The normal term is "crimped" connection.  When done right with quality lugs and crimper, the crimped connection is great.  There have been some on line discussions on the merits of crimp versus solder for signal level connections (usually no conclusion reached).
Jerry J - Jupiter, Florida

Wittsend

Congratulation on the fix. And, yes, Jerry (Old Kayker) has come to my rescue with great information too. Me, I've got the original LA-3 in the car - and two spares LA-3's in my desk drawer. :-)

82expghost

Update on my issue,....... FIXED!

I was ohm ing everything like a mad man and found that most of the time the sensor return for the tps and vane and baro kept hitting 5.8 volts even though nothing was wrong with the tps or vane or baro, i fixed all the old nasty wires ford messed up with their smash style what ever you call it conections, they are all soldered, but theat didnt fix the froblem, and thats when i used the pages for ohming every thing that oldkayaker posted. i finally found the issue was that negative signal return ohm was 4.7,... its suposed to be .1 So i kept checking the harness till i got to the ecu, checked ecu pin for neg signal return against negative battery pin on ecu and still had 4.7 ohms

Next step was take ecu apart and look at it for anything noticable that would cause issues, took me 10 minutes tracing lines when i saw a bubble in the gelcoat of the board, poked and prodded it and found that signal return was broken on the board. Not burnt in any way, allittle amazed, so my next step was to solder a wire from one point to another and see if that fixes the proble, note to anybody attempting this, use alot of resin, its old and hard to get to act like solder, but i got a 3/4 long wire soldered to it and put it in the car and tested it to see if i still had problems

FULL RANGE OF THROTTLE! woo fixed it!
i would post pics but this site doesnt alow my pic types
98 taurtus, now in heaven
82 exp, the race car, cancer took it away
77 pinto, weekend warrior
92 grand marquis, daily

Wittsend

First, my sympathies. When I did my swap my car would idle with a miss but at wide open throttle ran well. Worse yet, at about 2,500 RPM it had a noticeable miss. You could see it in the tach too. I did EVERYTHING and nothing seemed to change the problem.  I dealt with this for nearly three years.  Then on my 101st attempt (figure of speech, not actual number) to find the problem I in frustration hooked the 12V + directly to the coil and the problem pretty much went away.

Rather than trace the problem through the harness (and anyway the harness HAD the correct voltage at the coil) I just put a relay between the battery and the coil, activated by the ignition switch. 3+ years and I'm still doing well.  BTW, I used the ill advised 88 T/C harness, sorted wires for what seemed like a week and still had about 15-20 "not sure of" wires.  My effort to use everything Turbo Coupe (relay box, alternator, etc.) did NOT workout to the advantage I thought it would.

So, yes there is obvious discouragement, but don't let it be defeat.

65ShelbyClone

Yeah, I disassembled the '86 Thunderbird harness that is in my car and it was a wild ride to say the least. I should have just bought a MegaSquirt harness and next time I will, but my budget was down to pocket change in a tin can at the time.

It's beaucoup bucks, but aftermarket stock 2.3T harnesses are still available if things get so bad yours has to be replaced.

Confucius say man who smell defeat should change socks.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

82expghost

so the first thing i did was remove the harness and check all its wires before running tests, and right off the bat i found where ford had multiple constant 12v wires heat smashed together has fallen apart and was rubbing the sensor ground wires which were also falling apart, so hopefully today i will be done soldering all the points and heat shrink wrapping them, and adding a obd1 plug in under my dash. then to test run the engine again and check for codes
98 taurtus, now in heaven
82 exp, the race car, cancer took it away
77 pinto, weekend warrior
92 grand marquis, daily

82expghost

both of the sets of attachments are great, the scanner comes in today, and im going to wire some jumpers in the harness to the scanner and try that out

the tfi plug was crispy from old age, i havnt found a tfi plug from the 80s that wasnt

i cant wait to check some of the sensors, i have a feeling im going to be removing the harness, i might know the grounds that are wrong, the ecu has two grounds that i have noticed, ecu body ground and sensor ground, the merkur electrical book just stated ecu body ground and the sensor ground had the symbol of the dot with three lines indecating grounded out, i now know that is wrong and it should be not hooked to chassis and sensor ground should have a uninterupted path from sensor to ecu on its "ground"

i feel like im finally getting somewhere!
Thanks oldkayaker!
98 taurtus, now in heaven
82 exp, the race car, cancer took it away
77 pinto, weekend warrior
92 grand marquis, daily

oldkayaker

I agree it is more likely to be a electrical problem than a mechanical one.  Running the codes should give a idea of what is going on.  From reading, EFI's are very susceptible to grounds that are not perfect (loose connection).  A unlikely but possible problem with these old computers is the electrolytic capacitors going bad, see link.
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,15654.0.html

These links show the ECT characteristics along with that of other sensors.
http://www.rothfam.com/svo/reference/sensors.pdf
http://web.archive.org/web/20131229172303/http://oldfuelinjection.com/?p=10
Jerry J - Jupiter, Florida

82expghost

I have checked multiple times with the harness, its pinned right, for hours it ran with this set up, it would be probably around a week or about 200 hours of driving, I pulled the dizzy and didn't find a hurt teeth on the aux shaft or on the dizzy gear. I will check the cam and crank key, that's going to be a pain, so im going to run codes first. I checked the vam and it has all the correct voltages. the baro electrical was correct also, the tps was the only culprit I have found, and fixed it, its only problem was it would not max out at wot.

next question is, the ect (engine cool temp) what should its votage be and or resistance?
98 taurtus, now in heaven
82 exp, the race car, cancer took it away
77 pinto, weekend warrior
92 grand marquis, daily

oldkayaker

With you using a XR4TI harness just checking that you repined the computer connector for the LA3.

Since it was running good one moment and bad the next, I would assume something stopped working properly, i.e. a component died, one of many grounds came loose, a crank or cam key sheared, or.  The orange ground wire on the turbo compressor housing seems to be important.  Since you got into the TFI harness, make sure the cable shield is still there.  With wiring "turned to dust" could indicate other areas of the harness may be in bad condition too which could make finding the problem hard and time consuming.  Running the computer codes should help.

See links on wiring and running codes.
http://www.turboford.org/faq/88_ford_t-bird_complete.pdf      see figure 2 about 2/3 of the way down
http://www.rothfam.com/svo/reference/88Thunderbird.pdf
http://www.tomco-inc.com/Tech_Tips/ttt6.pdf

Based on the above, install the meter/light between the battery positive and the yellow-black wire going to computer pin 17 (STO), jumper between black-white wire going to computer pin 46 (SIG RTN) and the white-red wire going to computer pin 48 (STI).  Having not done this, please check links for correct interpretation.
Jerry J - Jupiter, Florida

82expghost

for everyones silent questions
i changed the plugs and wires, still have a huge dead spot and has no power under load

so now my next question
anybody with a 88 thunderbird ecu and motor, I do not have a obd1 test port, so i need a detailed description of what color wires are where on the plug, or a good picture with the wire colors showing, I'm at the point I'm going to check ecu codes and possibly meter all the pins to find discrepancies
98 taurtus, now in heaven
82 exp, the race car, cancer took it away
77 pinto, weekend warrior
92 grand marquis, daily

82expghost

OK for starters, i have a 77 pinto with a 2.3 turbo motor and harness from a XR4TI
upgrades include
equal length turbo manifold
front mount intercooler
walbro 255 with aem fuel pressure regulator
knife edged intake
LA3 ecu

sensors that i have thrown at the problem
tps
idle air solenoid
new brown top injectors/ remember LA3 ecu
new tfi harness/ pigtail (old one turned to dust) (wires soldered on, no butt connectors)

there may be more i am leaving out, ask and i will answer

for the problem now, i have been driving my pinto for a month now without issues, was super fun to drive, couldn't keep the rear wheels still, after driving for a whole day straight (4 hours of driving) was running fine, turned off car, about 2 hours later i came out to start it and all it would do is pop and blow flames out its butt, so i had to push it around the block to my garage. tested the system and found my fuel injectors were to blame at first, pressure the system to 41 psi and turn pump off (key never on, aux switch for pump) and noticed it would drop to zero in about 5 second flat.
ordered new injectors, they hold pressure for the whole day, maybe drop 1 psi after 10 hours.
feeling better, started the car, couldn't hold idle, finally after adjusting the tps and idle screw i got the car to idle smoother, alittle rich smelling.
went to take for test drive and have absolutely no power, i can idle from a dead stop to about 15 and then starts to pop and buck like i have 60 degrees advanced. but car can sit in one spot and rev freely
pulled back in the garage and checked timing over, all points line up right, checked timing 10 degrees btdc with pip unplugged, in right spot
checked voltages of all the sensors and everything is in range

I'm defeated, any suggestions?
and today my new motorcraft Copper plugs and motorcraft plug wires will be going on since stinger and svo forums said the duralast plug wires can cause the same issue
any body got ideas in case the wires and plugs are not to blame?
98 taurtus, now in heaven
82 exp, the race car, cancer took it away
77 pinto, weekend warrior
92 grand marquis, daily


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