Mini Classifieds

Looking for a 1980 windshield
Date: 07/30/2020 04:51 pm
1976 Squire wagon

Date: 09/12/2018 10:30 pm
73 Pinto delivery wagon drag car

Date: 02/22/2017 01:58 pm
Wanted Dash for Pinto up to 1975
Date: 01/19/2020 09:06 am
Need Brakes for 1971 Pinto
Date: 04/27/2018 11:48 pm
Front grill for '72
Date: 03/02/2022 12:09 pm
cam pulley
Date: 05/30/2018 04:56 pm
4 speed pinto transmission

Date: 05/13/2021 05:29 pm
77 pinto
Date: 08/22/2017 06:31 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
  • Total Members: 7,892
  • Latest: Tanar_D
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,565
  • Total Topics: 16,275
  • Online today: 537
  • Online ever: 1,681 (March 09, 2025, 10:00:10 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 168
  • Total: 168
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Fabulous Fords Forever 2013

Started by vonkysmeed, January 17, 2013, 12:16:25 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

entropy

1972 Hoonabout
SBF swap
-308 cid
-CNC ported Brodix heads
-Edelbrock Super Victor intake
-QuickFuel 750 double pumper built by Siebert
-Single stage NOS Cheater system
8" rear 4.11 posi
G-Force 5 Speed
10 point rollcage


450-ish rwhp on motor.....something a bit more than that on the spray

qikpnto

I'll be there with the new look Cruzin wagon but it doesn't seem that too many people will be there to see it.
77 V8 Cruzin Wagon Custom

vonkysmeed

73 Pinto Runabout
351w from 74 galaxie
Heads from 69 Mercury Cougar
82 Mustang GT SROD Transmission and driveshaft
Mustang II rear end with Fairmont 3rd member
6 point cage

entropy

I'll be there with my V8 car...
1972 Hoonabout
SBF swap
-308 cid
-CNC ported Brodix heads
-Edelbrock Super Victor intake
-QuickFuel 750 double pumper built by Siebert
-Single stage NOS Cheater system
8" rear 4.11 posi
G-Force 5 Speed
10 point rollcage


450-ish rwhp on motor.....something a bit more than that on the spray

chrisf1219

 ;D ;D  wow i called and got 1 of last 20 open spots so i will be there.jon of fabulous fords said this willbe the largest show they ever had 2000 cars.i assume breakfast will be at carrows.got some washing and waxing getting ready for the show. c you there  chris   ;D ;D ;D ;D
77 wagon auto 2.3  wagons are the best and who knew I like flames on a pinto!!!!

Back in Blue

I will be there this year.!!  I signed up 2 cars..  A 78 Hatch and my 75 Bobcat wagon.  i almost signed up a 3rd car by the deadline, but I wasn't sure if I would have enough drivers to take all 3. Looking forward to seeing everyone there...    Steve
7 pintos and counting...

vonkysmeed

Wow, looks like a light year. Sorry so many are missing.  Hope next year will bring more pintos
73 Pinto Runabout
351w from 74 galaxie
Heads from 69 Mercury Cougar
82 Mustang GT SROD Transmission and driveshaft
Mustang II rear end with Fairmont 3rd member
6 point cage

Bipper

I will be there but am not bringing a car into the show this year. Just to much going on in life at the present to spend the required time on the car.
71 Sedan, stock
72 Pangra
73 Runabout, 2L turbo propane

Srt

i am going to be there but the only Pinto i will have with me is the one in my memories



the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

blupinto

Kimmy, if I knew you and Bob weren't going to show up I might not have bought an entry myself. I'm not sure it's a good idea to take the '74 wagon with a loose inner tie rod but that's what I registered. Money's been real tight here too.  You're one of the few people who I can hang with and feel welcome. You'll be missed. I guess I needn't bring those couple goodies I was going to bring to you... :-\
One can never have too many Pintos!

pintogirl

Well, bad news.  We are not going to make this year's Knotts. :(   Money and work are not going to well right now, so it is best that we don't go this year. We were planning on just going and hanging out with everyone with out taking a Pinto, then going to Disneyland after, but that had to be cancelled too. :(  Hopefully things will be better next year.

Becky, make sure you take lots of pics and share them so I can see all the Pintos that show up. :D
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

RSM

I'm going but taking my Bronco II this year. The Pinto is in the middle of some rehab work on the fuel system and won't be done. Still working on getting the lift kit installed in the Bronco II.

vonkysmeed

we are down to a month and this is all of the action?  hope more cars show up than respond. 
73 Pinto Runabout
351w from 74 galaxie
Heads from 69 Mercury Cougar
82 Mustang GT SROD Transmission and driveshaft
Mustang II rear end with Fairmont 3rd member
6 point cage

pintodan460

Just a note for everyone that may go to Knotts or can't go because of distance. I decided to try the Kool Redding Nites this year. It's a week long event. I'm going Friday thru Sunday. There should be over a thousand cars. I will miss Knotts but, will give the Redding folks a nice look a the ol blue Pinto. Should be a good time.
big block pinto

cutelitlputtputt

I even got a registration in the mail and I haven't been for a couple of years! 
:o
I really would like to go.  My work situation is so unstable.  But I still would like to go!
Matt, maybe you can put wings on your Pinto and fly the friendly skies!!!!  (just kidding!)   8)
Anything to keep her runnin'!

chrisf1219

 ;D  well as a very small inside joke i know they wont let ant fiats in! have you bought a 500 yet? well that was fun cya alberto  chris
77 wagon auto 2.3  wagons are the best and who knew I like flames on a pinto!!!!

Pintopower

Hello all, [/font]Online registration for Fabulous Fords Forever is now open!

[/font]https://events.r20.constantcontact.com/register/eventReg?oeidk=a07e6vh6dnj24321345&oseq=&c=&ch=[/font] [/font]The registration rate is ahead of last year's.  Don't delay.  More Pintos at the show means fewer Mustangs.[/font] [/font]You do not have to have a PayPal account to use PayPal.

Please register as soon as you can. It looks like they will not only fill up this year, but they will do it in record time. Just so you know, the old way of mailing in a registration is still fine but thanks to the online method, people are doing it faster than before.

Thanks,

[/font]Alberto
I have many Pintos, I like them....
#1. 1979 Wagon V6 Restored
#2. 1977 Wagon V6 Restored
#3. 1980 Sedan I4 Original
#4. 1974 Pangra Wagon I4 Turbo
#5. 1980 Wagon I4 Restored
#6. 1976 Bobcat Squire Hatchback (Restoring)
...Like i said, I like them.
...and I have 4 Fiats.

Pintopower

Even though I think the venue there is the worst possible one anyone could have ever chosen, and I hate Ford Mustangs, and I am in Northern California now....Of course I will be there.
I have many Pintos, I like them....
#1. 1979 Wagon V6 Restored
#2. 1977 Wagon V6 Restored
#3. 1980 Sedan I4 Original
#4. 1974 Pangra Wagon I4 Turbo
#5. 1980 Wagon I4 Restored
#6. 1976 Bobcat Squire Hatchback (Restoring)
...Like i said, I like them.
...and I have 4 Fiats.

r4pinto

Some year I will make the cross country drive but not this year
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

vonkysmeed

That time again, Got emailed the entry and filled it out. 

1st pinto is entered.  Who else is going???

Did not say that I should not forward the address for others to use.

https://events.r20.constantcontact.com/register/eventReg?oeidk=a07e6vh6dnj24321345&oseq=&c=&ch=
73 Pinto Runabout
351w from 74 galaxie
Heads from 69 Mercury Cougar
82 Mustang GT SROD Transmission and driveshaft
Mustang II rear end with Fairmont 3rd member
6 point cage


Welcome to FordPinto.com, home of the PCCA - the Pinto Car Club of America. Founded in 1999 with the goal of creating a dedicated meeting place with strong appeal to Ford Pinto and Mercury Bobcat owners and enthusiasts across all generations. Each day new members join the PCCA family expanding the knowledge base and enhancing our community.


Our site offers extensive information, technical and historic as well as live classifieds ads to find what you are looking for. One of our main goals is to save you time, money and a lot of hassle when searching for information about our cars. Not a member of our family yet? Please feel free to sign up
 for a free account and join the informative discussions in the forums when looking for that tidbit of info you seek. We, the members of FordPinto.com look forward to welcoming you to our family and hearing from you. We are here to assist in any way we can.


FordPinto.com supports the development of parts resources or parts re-manufacturing as opportunities arise. We promote the efforts of individuals and companies that endeavor to re-manufacture, sell, or otherwise distribute additional resources for the Ford Pinto or Mercury Bobcat.

As always, we at FordPinto.com encourage comments and suggestions on how we may be able to improve your experience with us. We take what our members have to say very seriously. Don't hesitate to submit your ideas and feedback.

management@fordpinto.com