Front disc Brakes (4 & 5 Lug)

[Reeves1]

https://www.fordpinto.com/parts-resources-here-is-where-you-can-find-this-or-that/d1fz1102b-d1fz-1102-b-d1fz-1102b-71-73-ford-pinto-rotor/

[Bullitt4248]

Thanks again - I'll keep looking and learning -

[Wittsend]

While there may be others that may answer this question sadly we have pretty much determined that Dick 1172762 had passed away a number of years ago. He was a Pinto racer for many years and thus I assume if the alteration was mentioned by him, it likely was capable of being done. Hopefully someone will be able to verify for you. It would be a solution for the rare and pricey 71-73 rotors.

[Bullitt4248]

[quote author=dick1172762    "The 74/80 calipers can be adapted to the 71/73 spindals with a little machine work. Or the entire unit (spindal/caliper/rotor) can be adapted by useing different ball joints/tie rod ends. Changing the entire unit is the best way. I've done both with better brakes both ways.
[/quote]

Please explain how this would work on my 1972 Pinto wagon - thanks

[65ShelbyClone]

I actually did think about that when flipping the parts around. I was reluctant to because the caliper has a sizable boss cast into it just for the bleeder and I didn't really want to disassemble the whole thing just to see if metal behind the piston was thick enough.  The bleeder seals on a taper at the bottom too, so I'd have to get that right or figure out a way around it. I think that's why the threads are so deep.

This car is pretty nose-heavy and fast with a tinfoil chassis and plans to go faster so I want the brakes 100% reliable with no uncertainties. I may investigate it though. On the other hand I'm really looking hard at some Afco aluminum calipers...

[Wittsend]

Any possibility that a hole can just be drilled/tapped at the top or is this one of those "metal doesn't look thick enough" things?

[65ShelbyClone]

Since I still have to change to the front hoses, I may put my calipers on opposite sides to get that clearance at the expense of having the bleeders point downward...whi ch will require unbolting them for proper bleeding.

Turns out the stainless hoses I have are too short to use with the calipers upside-down, so I had to keep the rubber lines. It was a PITA to bleed them this time, but it got done. The hoses clear the springs better and UCA clearance is improved, but I think some steering limiters will still be necessary until I figure something else out.

[Julee]

Thanks for the info Dick. I have purchased a pair of Granada rotors and will be starting the swap soon

[65ShelbyClone]

I have just recently finished doing what you did in this thread; Granada 11" and GM metric calipers on a '71-73 Pinto.

Firstly, I can confirm that the Granada rotors, bearings, and seals fit right onto an early Pinto spindle. No problem there.

I modified a pair of '74+ metric caliper conversion brackets in a similar fashion. Some pictures are in my build thread here:
http://www.fordpinto.com/it's-all-about-the-turbo/my-1972-turbo-swap-thread/240/

What I wanted to add is this:
- Modifying the brackets makes them and the calipers fit over a Granada rotor. However, if the car's front is lowered substantially like mine is, the caliper banjo bolts/hose ends will hit the upper control arms and it gets worse as suspension compression increases. It greatly reduces turning radius once contact occurs...like under hard braking.

Addendum to the last paragraph: It looks like there are two versions of the calipers I got; one where the banjo fitting and bleeder are on the top (the style I have) and one where the banjo is on the bottom and the bleeder is on the upper rear. It looks like the latter with the inlet on the bottom and rear bleeder would probably improve clearance with the UCA by a decent amount.

Since I still have to change to the front hoses, I may put my calipers on opposite sides to get that clearance at the expense of having the bleeders point downward...which will require unbolting them for proper bleeding. It's not an uncommon technique used on motorcycles where the MC is substantially higher than the caliper.

[65ShelbyClone]

Rember, this ( should) be about what you HAVE done or ARE doing now, as apposed to what you heard.

I have just recently finished doing what you did in this thread; Granada 11" and GM metric calipers on a '71-73 Pinto.

Firstly, I can confirm that the Granada rotors, bearings, and seals fit right onto an early Pinto spindle. No problem there.

I modified a pair of '74+ metric caliper conversion brackets in a similar fashion. Some pictures are in my build thread here:
http://www.fordpinto.com/it's-all-about-the-turbo/my-1972-turbo-swap-thread/240/

What I wanted to add is this:
- Modifying the brackets makes them and the calipers fit over a Granada rotor. However, if the car's front is lowered substantially like mine is, the caliper banjo bolts/hose ends will hit the upper control arms and it gets worse as suspension compression increases. It greatly reduces turning radius once contact occurs...like under hard braking.

[Reed]

Wow, I earn new things every day!  I haven't pulled the wheels off my 71 yt to see what kind of iscs are on it, but it does have discs.  This thread is GREAT!   

[map351]

Reed
The 65/67 mustang/Fairlane/Comet used the same K/H caliper just different Spindle adapter, I have 6 sets (2 Mopar) and rebuilt a pair for my pinto but found the JFZ and went that direction to loose a few Lbs on the sprung weight on the front end.

Mike

[Reed]

I have a somewhat different and possibly simpler and cheaper suggestion.

I just purchased my first Pinto so i don't know much about them, but I used to be into Mopars and slant sixes.  In the Mopar world there is a similar issue with brakes-  the early darts and valiants had a four piston Kelsey-Hayes disc brake setup that is extremely expensive to find parts for now.  Also, through 73, those same cars had a five on four inch bolt pattern, but 74-76 they got a five on four point 5 inch bolt pattern as well as a standard single piston disc brake system.  Many folks want to swap to the later disc brake system but don't want to swap their rear axles or lose their fancy wheel in the small bolt pattern.

I knew a gentleman who solved this problem by ordering a rotor blank that would fit the spindle and bearings but he got it machined to the small bolt pattern.  This way, he got the later better disc brake setup but kept the original bolt pattern.

Would it be possible to do something similar for Pintos?  Could a rotor blank be ordered and then the lug bolt pattern machined and the lug bolts pressed in by a machine shop?  Mioght be simpler than all this engineering (although I do have much respect for the skill and creativity of this engineering).

[map351]

I have a little different approach to the big rotor swap instead of the Big heavy GM caliper. Wilwood makes sells a 74 & up Wilwood caliper bracket simple and light & you can buy good used Aluminum ( Light) JFZ & Wilwood for 10 Bux & up at the local swap meets or check with your local dirt track guys. The Wilwood bracket will need Adjusted for the early spindle but not a big deal they cut a over size slot for centering. I'll make a template with dimensions if anyone wants them. I think the Wilwood is a JFZ knockoff. The JFZ pictured were 10Bux each at a local swap meet..
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Wilwood-Dynalite-Calipers-Dirt-Late-Model-Imca-Race-Car_W0QQitemZ360068436230QQihZ023QQcategoryZ33563QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Mike

[GFPRACING]

WITH A 5 BOLT REAR END YOU STAND LESS A CHANCE OF BRAKE OFF YOUR WHEEL STUD'S
AND IT LOOK'S COOLER
AND IT OPEN'S THE DOOR UP TO FIND USED WHEEL EASYER
YOU CAN USE FORD /  DODGE / AMC AND A FEW OTHER'S

GFP

[Pintony]

Hello Brad,
I wanted to say what an outstanding job you did making and photographing and taking the time to list part numbers for your 11" Granada disc brake information.
I think this will help out most of the members here.

As always a pleasure to read your posts.

Keep up the great work and I'll keep watching for your posts.

From Pintony

[77turbopinto]

Has anyone else had a clearence issue with the lower a arm? I had to do some grinding.

Also, I have heard a few people say that they can't run wheels smaller that 15's, but I can run 14's fine.

[turbopinto72]

Frank, I actually used 1/16" stainless washers and added untill it was just right where I wanted it to be.

[FCANON]

so what did you use to make the spacers Brad?

Frank

[77turbopinto]

My replies:

I did not, as mine had discs.

I don't know what exatcly that is, so I will say .

I just used the all the stock lines, less the two on the rear axle, but changed the hoses.

I had to look for a while, but front hoses from a 88 chevy s10 blazer 4x4 2.8l, and rear hose from a 68 stang v8(and rear). I had to modify the front frame brackets and install the frame end sides with nuts, and the rear hose (ground it down to fit with the pinto clip).

Yes, take your time and double check your work as you go.  My car still needs some strong brake pedal in-put, but now it WILL stop. I would assume that you have a pre-73 so I have no idea how all of this will work for you. 

Bill

[Chris]

About conversions…

Do you have to change the Metering (proportional, combination, whatever whoever wants to call it) valve when going from front drums to front discs?
Do you need a residual pressure valve?
Where can you get the brake line fittings for the Master cylinder without using adapters?
I'm having a large problem finding fittings.
Anyone have suggestions or ideas? Thanks.

[77turbopinto]

I agree with pontony, and as for me, the stock brakes did not give my t/p the stopping power it needed. I did not want to put in the power booster. Going to the 5 lug was not what I wanted, but it was the easy way to do it (finding factory rims the size I wanted was easier too). I used 68 stang rear/granada fronts. The rear was not a "bolt-in", but niether was the granada stuff.

The only think that I did not see mentioned here was the clearence issue with the LOWER control arm that I had.

I used brake hoses from a 88 chevy S-10 blazer 4x4 2.8l.

Bill

[78pinto]

post that in the parts for sale section, along with your location and i'm sure you'll sell it all!

[bigbill]

I guess this doesn't have a lot to do with the original start of this thread(that's a new term for me. 6 months ago I didn't even know how to turn a computer on and I still don't understand how to type with more than two fingers!) But I guess you can see that I am surely from an earlier time.By the way, the T-Bird Turbo-Coupe I am using for my rear end and transmission donor still has it's original complete turbo engine. I am not going to use it or the bellhousing, flywheel, starter, etc.The whole computer system is there also. If it is the new Hot Tip then I will let someone have it DIRT cheap(200 bucks) I still love the sound of a V-8 through a good set of headers!!!

[bigbill]

I fully understand that an 8.8 rear is not a "bolt in" swap but just how hard is it to trim off a few mounting lugs and set the thing down on a set of 3 inch perches and weld the perches to the housing? If most of the members don't have the resorces to do or have done that little bit of fabrication then how are they doing subframe connectors,roll bars,chassis engine mounts, ect.? The small amount of extra width in a Mustang rear end(less than 1 inch) is very helpful in gaining clearance on the back side of the tire and wheel. No, I am very sorry that I don't "Get It". I come from a generation that had to use our heads and develop skills because we could not run out and buy ready made parts. Life is not full of "bolt ins" I was just trying to show some members that they can do these things if they want to I admit I have an advantage over some folks because I have a lot of time andhard work involved in being a mechanic and it is sometimes hard for other people to get acess to the things I can walk out to my little shop and just pick up. I am also very hard-headed in case you did not notice
'

[Pintony]

Well Bill,
Since you do not get it.
The 8.8 is not a bolt-in install.
Most of the members here do not know how or do not have the resourses to weld in a 8.8 rear.
Also I'm pretty sure that the 8.8 is wider that the stock Pinto rear?
Most everyone uses the MII 8" rear that is still 4 lug.
For those who want the 5 lug I recomend the maverick V8 rear axel.
Maybe that will help you understand.
Eventually I will tear out my 8" rear and I'll install my Lincolin Versales Disk brake rear.
From Pintony

[bigbill]

Maybe I am a little slow minded but why would anyone be misguided enough to install a 5 lug rear end when a 4 lug 8.8 will pick the front wheels of a 3400 lb. Mustang up time after time and never tear up? I have been building Ford cars for over 40 years(I am 58 years old) and I currently own and race a 66 GTA Fairlane with a 439 c.i. FE based engine. It runs the 1/8 mile in 6.699 seconds and 102 mph. This car weighs 2980lbs. and has an extreme amount of torque so yes it has a 9inch rear. A normal small block Ford engine in a 2400 lb. car will NEVER harm a 4 lug 8.8 rear endand you only need bigger front brakes when you go a lot faster and get a lot heavier! I also happen to think Cobra R 4 lug wheels and Mustang Pony wheels look pretty good. I know they are 16 inch but guess what! they will fit a PINTO

[Pintony]

Hey Bill,
I agree. Maybe it has something to do with the 22"+ wheels they are making now???
Sorry I just do not get it.
Sorry Bill, 4 lug wheels are ugly.
+ many more choices with 5 lug rotors.
Also if you swap to a beefy rear with 5 lug then you will have to carry  2 spare tires in case of a flat.

From Pintony

[bigbill]

Why does everyone want to put 5 lug wheels and bigger brakes on a 2300 lb. car? 4 lug stuff works just fine and was factory installed on cars a lot bigger, heavier, and faster than a Pinto! Mustang, T-bird and Cougar all have had very nice wheels at one time or another(15&16 inch) which will fit a Pinto very well and all of them had engine and drive train choices that could be pretty strong. So what's the big deal with bigger brakes and 5 lugs?

[FCANON]

So in the Big pic of this you have 5/16 difference between the 73 and 74 break mounts.,,.
I will meshure the 74 mustang 5 lug rotor and the 72 rotor and see if its the same as the on you have,,,, I just happen to have a 71 and a 77 suframe at the Print shop, I would have dont it sooner but I just bought a Calipar to meshure with.

Frank