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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

NASCAR

Started by dick1172762, July 28, 2017, 04:02:35 PM

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Wittsend

Sometimes things just run their course. NASCAR use to help sell family cars to a performance minded dads on Monday. Now they try and sell detergent to housewives. NASCAR, NHRA etc. are not forms that keep up with modern FWD cars people relate to.  Fake bodies and painted on features take their toll on truth too. $60 cheap seats and $10+ beer..., and at some point it becomes "been there, done that" for the fickle fan that never really was.

I'm not sure what NASCAR can do. I was never a fan for lengthy roundy-round racing.  NHRA Pro Stock should go back to stock bodies/floorpans with welded in cages and running currently available engines (even if limited to 4 cylinders).  Allow 4-WD to get around the FWD limitations.  I lost interest with the current cars looking like carburated funny Cars.

Rebolting73

Yep, California is even trying to extort big oil for cash by filing lawsuits for global warming. One party rule.  To some degree, technology blindly drives culture. The first cars required wiggling, jiggling and incantations to start. If you were not a mechanic, you were walking home. Even 50 years ago, cars were still complex, needing regular attention. The average guy, with average tools would make repairs. Everyone worked on cars back then, so higher interest, pride, value and competition were natural. NASCAR had guys like Dave Marcus (in wing tip shoes) that the average guy could relate to. Today, cars are complicated, going forever with only oil and filters. There is no underlying need stimulating interest with cars, but there is with phones and applications. Even electric or hydrogen cars will not kindle the personal experience needed to fill grandstands.

Pintosopher

Of course if you believe everything MSN propagandizes  ::) then we are cooked.. I'll stick with the business side of reality. The Left has done a bang up job of separating our Youth from the Parental influence of the gender based Interests that supported racing in general. NASCAR has overlooked the marketplace and ignored the Fiscal realities of the Middle Class families. (IT COSTS TOO DAMN MUCH!) Junior and Sally must have the latest in Mobile technologies to just keep up at school, and the parents are losing ground to the Infotainment Universe overhead.
Show me a child that wants to build things instead of just using things up to a point of Obsolescence, and I'll show you a Future racing Fan :-\
Daddy and Mommy need to "parent up " and fix this or the  Media will own our children and all of their values, interests, and Income. Code writers? yeah , we must have them, But not at the expense of understanding why they exist.
All of us Graying Seniors have an obligation, or this will end in the "Rise of the Machines" and the end of Humanity, and it's value to the Future :o

Pintosopher,  looking to the lessons of History, Humbled by the wisdom of Divinity

Motorhead to the Equine Ox cart ;)
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

Rebolting73

Times sure do change. 100 years ago, everyone knew a horse drawn chaise from a brougham. Today, I can't tell a chuck wagon from a stage coach. In spite of my expectations and prompting, only 1 of our 4 kids (a girl) enjoys working on her own car, and that's only because she has the screw head gene and will fix anything. Vintage tin is fading away from the street and into static displays. Makes driving a Pinto even sweeter. Holding those reigns with pride, giddy up little pony.

dick1172762

Today there is a news post on MSN about why the stands are empty at NASCAR races. One I had though of before but never gave much though to. The youth of today are not into cars. There are no gearheads anymore leaving school today. First of all there are no cars made today that makes your blood run warm. The only ones that could, can't be bought by the youth of today. Sport cars are the only hot rods of today, and those people don't dig NASCAR very much if at all. The youth of today are only fired up over their electronics and look at a car as only an object that will interfere with their I pad and such. What can be done? Nothing at all. That's the way it is and there is no cure. Go to a car show and you will see the owners are all over 40. SAYLAVIE America!
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Pintosopher

Quote from: dick1172762 on October 06, 2017, 01:53:51 PM
Just saw on the news that Denny Hamlin thinks that NASCAR drivers should make as much as the NBA and NFL stars make. But for ever hi $$$$ player there are many that don't make the big bucks. Sounds like NASCAR, right? They both act like fools when they win so that's even. When I worked down south for a NASCAR team, even last place payed enough to show up for the next race. We had used tires and engines, in fact the whole car was made up of used parts from a top running team. Its still that way. The stars are all rich and well taken care of, the rest are just hanging on the best they can. So quit your crying Denny and try to win the run offs. Maybe the money NASCAR drivers make should be prorated to where they placed in the race. First place$$$$. Last place$. Racing would be MUCH better that way.
I never heard Mark Martin gripe about the income in Nascar, the man actually had some guts and didn't whine if he never claimed a championship,( Came Damn Close!) So Denny, Get your Hormones Checked, and beware the progressive mantra of outcome based achievement, or you'll see a world where everyone gets a Pony for trying.
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

dick1172762

Just saw on the news that Denny Hamlin thinks that NASCAR drivers should make as much as the NBA and NFL stars make. But for ever hi $$$$ player there are many that don't make the big bucks. Sounds like NASCAR, right? They both act like fools when they win so that's even. When I worked down south for a NASCAR team, even last place payed enough to show up for the next race. We had used tires and engines, in fact the whole car was made up of used parts from a top running team. Its still that way. The stars are all rich and well taken care of, the rest are just hanging on the best they can. So quit your crying Denny and try to win the run offs. Maybe the money NASCAR drivers make should be prorated to where they placed in the race. First place$$$$. Last place$. Racing would be MUCH better that way.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

dick1172762

On wheels just like when he broke the speed of sound in 93 ( 94? ). Andy Green also holds the diesel speed record set on the salt flats. I don't think NASA has ever broken the speed of sound with their sled.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Pintosopher

Quote from: dick1172762 on October 06, 2017, 09:03:11 AM
Just read the news clip on MSN about the 1000 mph Bloodhound that Andy Green ( fastest man in a car on earth ) will drive to try to be the first to go 1000 mph. Has both a jet engine and a rocket engine plus a 800 hp Jaguar engine to just run the fuel pump. What a blast that will be!  They will try in 2018 in South America. The car will draw more press than NASCAR ever though of. Just think, 1000 mph on land. Good luck Andy! You hold the hopes and dreams of every gearhead in the world.
Would that be on wheels or has NASA already beat that with Rocket sleds on rail tracks? :o
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

dick1172762

Just read the news clip on MSN about the 1000 mph Bloodhound that Andy Green ( fastest man in a car on earth ) will drive to try to be the first to go 1000 mph. Has both a jet engine and a rocket engine plus a 800 hp Jaguar engine to just run the fuel pump. What a blast that will be!  They will try in 2018 in South America. The car will draw more press than NASCAR ever though of. Just think, 1000 mph on land. Good luck Andy! You hold the hopes and dreams of every gearhead in the world.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Pintosopher

Quote from: one2.34me on October 05, 2017, 01:39:51 PM
I really appreciate the invite Dick. I would love to move somewhere like that! Honestly, I just don't see my wife ever leaving the kids and grandkids behind in Ca. I can't blame her though, I can't even imagine myself being stuck somewhere with only me!
[/quo te]
Frank ,same thing here with my wife. We're doomed by the paradox of the access to the coast and Lake Tahoe area. Being land locked would drive her nuts, and me even nuttier dealing with it, and we have no kids, soo, we endure till they impoverish us. BTW in Folsom 1100 sq ft 3bdrm 2Ba now selling for $410K , built in 1959!  And the Beat goes on...  :o :o :o

Pintosopher , no shack left unflipped, No pancake without syrup
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

dga57

Quote from: dick1172762 on October 05, 2017, 09:24:48 AM
Siloam Springs is 15 miles from our house. It is the home of Marsh wheels and tires for circle track cars. But its no longer open as the owner died and no one has bought it. Very bad as their 13 x 7 mini stock wheels were perfect on a Pinto. Very nice city with many large company's and jobs. Located on hwy 412 at the border of Arkansas. City is split down the middle with the border, so you can be an Okie or a Razorback.

My uncle (Myron Peters) was the librarian at John Brown University and my aunt Hulen taught business and typing classes at the high school there for years.  He died in 2009 and she in 2012 so haven't been back there since, although I still have a cousin in Siloam Springs that I keep in touch with.  She was a teacher too but retired at the end of the last school year.  The house where they lived was 1/4 mile from the Oklahoma border.  Small world, eh?

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

one2.34me

I really appreciate the invite Dick. I would love to move somewhere like that! Honestly, I just don't see my wife ever leaving the kids and grandkids behind in Ca. I can't blame her though, I can't even imagine myself being stuck somewhere with only me!

dick1172762

Siloam Springs is 15 miles from our house. It is the home of Marsh wheels and tires for circle track cars. But its no longer open as the owner died and no one has bought it. Very bad as their 13 x 7 mini stock wheels were perfect on a Pinto. Very nice city with many large company's and jobs. Located on hwy 412 at the border of Arkansas. City is split down the middle with the border, so you can be an Okie or a Razorback.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

dga57

Quote from: dick1172762 on October 04, 2017, 03:50:13 PM
Jack! Here in NW Arkansas we have clear sky's, NO smog, NO smog check on our cars, great people, good doctors, many street rods, green grass and trees, cheap gas, and much more. If you want to see for yourself, come take a look and stay with us. Who knows, you might end up a Razorback.

I can endorse the truthfulness of Dick's description.  Used to spend some time in Siloam Springs which is not far from where he lives!

Dwayne
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Pintosopher

Quote from: dick1172762 on October 04, 2017, 05:51:30 PM
Don't worry about leaving a void if you move. If you leave, there will be 5 ill eagle's to take your place. Jerry will see to it don't you know? BTW I have 10 trees in our yard.

10 trees?
" If you leaf me now, you take away the biggest part of me!" wooo noo baby please don't go!"
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

dick1172762

Don't worry about leaving a void if you move. If you leave, there will be 5 ill eagle's to take your place. Jerry will see to it don't you know? BTW I have 10 trees in our yard.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

one2.34me

LOL! Thanks for being so kind Dick and Pintosopher! I was sitting here upset with myself because my post was so whiney and off topic. I'm thinking you're right Pintosopher. If every one who wanted to leave Ca. moved out, the country would buckle like a cheap paper plate! I'd love to get back there Dick. I flew over Arkansas once and it was beautiful. So many trees. PBS had me convinced there were only a few trees left in the entire country!

Pintosopher

Quote from: dick1172762 on October 04, 2017, 03:50:13 PM
Jack! Here in NW Arkansas we have clear sky's, NO smog, NO smog check on our cars, great people, good doctors, many street rods, green grass and trees, cheap gas, and much more. If you want to see for yourself, come take a look and stay with us. Who knows, you might end up a Razorback.
Jack,  if we all move to the Midwest, the country would list and capsize ;D
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

Pintosopher

If you've seen Al Gore recently, He's eaten a lot of Bovine/ Pork to go with that BMI and tonnage :o
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

dick1172762

Jack! Here in NW Arkansas we have clear sky's, NO smog, NO smog check on our cars, great people, good doctors, many street rods, green grass and trees, cheap gas, and much more. If you want to see for yourself, come take a look and stay with us. Who knows, you might end up a Razorback.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

one2.34me



  For old schoolers, motorheads, garage tinkering "engineers"and anyone who looks up when they hear a radial engine chugging along, the article below, IMO, doesn't offer a lot of good news. If Uncle Jerry and his peers, or their successors even allow internal combustion cars to be driven, they'll all be very collectable.
  It makes me glad I was around to experience the unfettered development of automobiles. My ears, eyes and nose are all thankful. Oddly enough, I'm thankful to have driven the 91 freeway westward in 1972 through San Bernardino and Riverside at dusk in my FE powered 1959 Galaxy Fairlane 500. Experiencing first hand, the atmospheric world of Soylent Green. Well, maybe my lungs aren't that thankful. Ecars would likely help in high density areas, like L.A./ O.C. where you can drive or ride from the beach to San Diego or Victorville, etc. in a 90+ mile traffic jam.
  I also see, among other things, that through the use of additional money saving robots, they'll be able to sell us our self driving, electrical SUVs, trucks and cars, at the same price or higher, even though they need fewer expensive tax paying, money spending, car buying people to build them.
  Let's all enjoy our internal combustion rides while we can. Eventually, driving one will be as traumatizing to the Al Gores of the world as ordering a Philly Cheesesteak at a vegan bistro.
Just kidding, kinda.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ford-motor-ceo/ford-to-cut-costs-14-billion-invest-in-trucks-electric-cars-ceo-idUSKCN1C82NL

Srt


Quote from: Wittsend on September 29, 2017, 11:03:26 AM
About the only (generally available) collectible car I can think of since 1973 is the Buick Grand National. And, it by the way is 30 years old now!  That said one never knows.  The big problem I see are there are so many plastic/rubber parts and intricate smog and electronic parts (applicable to smog laws) on modern cars that it would be a real pain to keep one legally on the street.


the early 70's buick skylarks with the gs455 stage 1 package were nice too
the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

dick1172762

Looks like the boys of NASCAR got caught cheating again at the Dover race. I read AJ's book a while back and he talked about how teams cheat and get away with it. Said they cheat on a 100 or so things and when NASCAR tech finds 10 their really happy and pass the cars. I've been known to cheat a little in the past too. Not to win, but to not run in the back of the pack. I do have some pride you know. Only place I cheated on my 80 Pinto was wider wheels. A really long time ago.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Wittsend

I lived in San Gabriel, CA. from ages 10 thru 20 and frequently went to Irwindale (the old drag strip). I even road my bike out there once (it was about 14 miles - one way). And given the portion next to the dam with the trucks, speed etc. it was kind of challenging.


  They had the Winternational Warm Up's out there and I remember standing in front of Glidden's Pinto for what seemed like hours. I had this dream that he would see my "dedication" and ask me to crew for him. Of course that vision was quickly snapped when Melanie Vincz "Miss Valvoline" came over and actually started to help Bob.  Who could blame him. I was impressed that such a beauty would actually get her hands dirty.  I have no idea where Etta was???

dick1172762

BTW there is a great picture on MSM news of Ronnie Sox and Gas Ronda on the starting line at Irwindale. It will even allow you to copy it.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

dick1172762

Just saw on the web where Irwindale Event Center drag strip and circle track is being shut down to build a new (are you ready for this?) shopping mall!!!! This is a way of life now. Of all the drag strips I raced on in the 60's and 70's around Dallas (there were 11 with in a 100 mile radius) There is not one of those 11 still around. This includes mom and pop tracks and big ones like Green Valley and Dallas International. Green Valley was so far out in the sticks, it was almost in a different time zone. And yet they say in the news that malls will be no longer used due to all the places on the web to mail order anything you want. Saylavie for sure!
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

dick1172762

I really don't think most collector car are ever going to be driven on city streets. Car shows maybe, but only big ones. We have had people in our club in the past that did not drive their Pintos. Why I don't know because the value of the car will take many years to rise if ever. Its true value is in the enjoyment you will get driving it around town. I had as much fun and enjoyment towing my race car Pintos thru towns as I did racing them. It was like a magnet at times. Much fun.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Wittsend

About the only (generally available) collectible car I can think of since 1973 is the Buick Grand National. And, it by the way is 30 years old now!  That said one never knows.  The big problem I see are there are so many plastic/rubber parts and intricate smog and electronic parts (applicable to smog laws) on modern cars that it would be a real pain to keep one legally on the street.

dick1172762

I can not see any of the cars built today by Ford ever being a collector car in the next 10 or 20 or 30 or 40 years. Mustang's will likely hang on, but nothing else. If you have a Pinto never sell or give it away. Hand it down to your kids as its value will only grow with the years. Put it up on blocks in your garage and smile as your time runs out that you have done your best to save a real classic.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.


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