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Author Topic: What bellhousing for 2.3/T5 pinto conversion?  (Read 10779 times)

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Offline yblock64

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What bellhousing for 2.3/T5 pinto conversion?
« on: October 10, 2009, 06:50:57 PM »
I've read the topics on 5 speed conversions for the 2.3 Pinto but I'm still confused on what bellhousing to use. I bought a 1980 2.3/C4 that was a bracket race drag car. I want to remove the auto from it and install a T5. I thought a complete set-up from a Mustang or T-bird would work in this Pinto but now I'm not so sure. Seems to be something about the clutch/cable/bellcrank/push/pull/hydraulic/linkage....that is an issue with this conversion. Everyone that responded to my V8 swap questions were very helpful, could someone shed some light on this topic as well? Thanks


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Re: What bellhousing for 2.3/T5 pinto conversion?
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2009, 07:30:17 PM »
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Offline blink77

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Re: What bellhousing for 2.3/T5 pinto conversion?
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2009, 07:49:19 PM »
Richard
I've got a bell from a 77-78 MustII that had a 2.3 4-spd.
I put a T-5 from a 93 Must 2.3 on it. I used the MustII
throwout lever also. The bell you need is the one that
had the 4spd with the shifter that bolts on with 3 bolts.
The T-5 is completely different, but it bolts on this bell.
The Merkur 5sp takes the same shifter as the MustII 4sp,
(3 bolt)and bolts on the Pinto bell that comes with the 4spd
with the screw in shifter. The T-5 will move the shifter
closer to the dash, but the T-9 (Merkur) moved the shifter
back less than 2in. and I didn't have to cut a new hole in
the floor. Crazy ain't it.
Bill

Offline yblock64

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Re: What bellhousing for 2.3/T5 pinto conversion?
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2009, 08:48:03 PM »
Okay.... So the bellhousing that comes with a T5 won't work in a Pinto? A bell from a Mustang II 4cyl 4-speed is what I need to use, as it will bolt to the T5? What trans is a T9? What is the D9 bell? I know I'm firing a lot of questions at you, just need to know what parts to look for to make this work. Thanks guys- Richard

Offline 72pair

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Re: What bellhousing for 2.3/T5 pinto conversion?
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2009, 08:54:19 PM »
Risking further confusion, some fox mustangs with 2.3s used the iron case "hummer" trans (ie pinto} with a 3 bolt shifter. These bells bolted to the trans from the engine side like the pinto. What you want is an aluminum case SROD 4 speed bell that bolts up from the trans side like the T-5. The t-5 bellcrank bellhousings from fox cars also work. You can either notch the crossmember for cable clearance or fab a new bracket to eliminate the bellcrank. This topic has been covered many times here, just use the search function to see. JT :look:
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Offline yblock64

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Re: What bellhousing for 2.3/T5 pinto conversion?
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2009, 09:04:20 PM »
72pair
Thanks for the reply. So the T5 bell with bellcrank from a fox body will work with x-member notch. Such a simple car, yet so complex.... my brain hurts now.

Mike Modified

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Re: What bellhousing for 2.3/T5 pinto conversion?
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2009, 11:10:33 PM »
Try searching "d5 bell" and "d9 bell"  Lots of info.

Mike

Offline yblock64

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Re: What bellhousing for 2.3/T5 pinto conversion?
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2009, 08:17:58 AM »
Thanks - I'll try that search on the bells.

Offline 78cruisingwagon

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Re: What bellhousing for 2.3/T5 pinto conversion?
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2009, 12:39:31 PM »
The T9 is the Pinto ET gearbox (known as the Hummer) that had the tailhousing shortened and had a fith gear installed there. It was designed in Germany and used on a whole lot of European cars as well as imported Merkurs. The case is the same length and the shifter is in the same place as the four speed, making it the simplest direct bolt in overdrive for our Pinto's. But they are hard to find over here. They have two gear ratios. A 3.36 first gear, and a 3.65 first gear. The overdrive is I believe .81. Go to Burton Power ( an English Website), they have lots of info on these trans.

Offline yblock64

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Re: What bellhousing for 2.3/T5 pinto conversion?
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2009, 05:48:13 AM »
Good info. I did find one of these trans in a Merkur, but I was unsure of the fitment for a Pinto and some stuff was missing from it. I now have a complete T5 from a '92 2.3 Mustang to install in the '80 Pinto. I've always wondered how much better my '72 model Pinto 2000 cc would have been with an extra gear. It would run away from anything I raced(4 cyl,some 6cyl and a few V8 cars) until 105 mph and with 3.55 gears, that was all it would do.

Offline lugnut

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Re: What bellhousing for 2.3/T5 pinto conversion?
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2010, 09:02:58 PM »
I was at the local pick-n pull yard recently, and there is an 85 Murkur Xr4ti there with a 5 speed.  Would any of those parts be useful for a Pinto?  I did not crawl under the car because it was pretty wet under there!  I have an 87 Turbo coupe w/ a 5 speed that will someday be donating parts to my '78 wagon.
mike
 

Offline OhSix9

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Re: What bellhousing for 2.3/T5 pinto conversion?
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2010, 01:33:45 AM »
xr4's use a pos t9 unit that is basically the hummer with a 5th gear tacked on.  take a t5 from any fox body 2.3, 5 spd car and make the 2 inch bracket that bolts to the cable hole on the housing  to move the clutch cable up to clear the crossmember and you can retain the bellcrank stuff and not be changing shift forks and all that "fun".  plus this is by far the easiest combination to obtain.  you can take the whole thing from the flywheel to the tailshaft and if you ever need parts just make note of the year stang it came out of. easy to get clutches and all.  turbo cars tend to have different ratios vs the na cars. plus 87/8 turbo coupes have hydraulic slave cylinders that should be avoided.

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Offline lugnut

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Re: What bellhousing for 2.3/T5 pinto conversion?
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2010, 05:15:07 PM »
Thanks for the info, oh six.   I will start looking for a 2.3 'Stang.  I did take a pretty cool oil cooler/filter adapter off of that Merkur that allows one to swing the filter around to different angles. Who knows, could come in handy some day.
m

Offline OhSix9

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Re: What bellhousing for 2.3/T5 pinto conversion?
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2010, 07:05:04 PM »
Mike.

Sorry i missed the whole i have an 87 parts car bit. if you want to use that tranny  all you need is a bell housing that isn't hydraulic.  any of the ones above listed by others will work  you might find the first couple gears a bit long for a na car. all t5's are ten spline input but the pn for the turbo clutch is different.   I think it is a half inch bigger if memory serves. again go with the fly wheel as the source for determining which clutch  and away you go.    the 2.3 fox stangs probably have better ratios if you are using the original motor for a while.         
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Offline turbo74pinto

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Re: What bellhousing for 2.3/T5 pinto conversion?
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2010, 11:18:54 PM »
just to clear something up hear, not all t5s are 10 spline.  maybe all fords but i cant say for sure.  gm runs a 14 and a 26 spline along with a different bellhousing bolt pattern.  infact the t5 in my 41 ford is a 14 spline out of an s 10.

both na and turbo ford 4 banger cars shared the same gear sets.  mostly a 3.97 first with earlier ones being 4.03 or 4.02.  i dont remember for sure anymore, 4.0something.  then the svos in 85 and 86 ran a 3.50 first.  v8s were around 3.35 and some ford aftermarket around 2.95.  if you search, im pretty sure i posted up a good site with great ford t5 info.

for what its worth, the t5, flywheel and clutch in my pinto is out of an 88 turbo coupe.  the bellhousing is out of an 89 (at least im pretty sure, anyhow, it was around that year) fox bodied mustang, as is the tranny mount.  i ran my clutch cable straight to the bellcrank without notching the frame or building a bracket.  i probably should have, but its been 2 years with no troubles, binding or any more wear than paint being rubbed off my frame.  the speedo cable used is one out of an automatic pinto, since the fog speedo cable goes into the opposite side of a t5.  my speedo gear is the same that was in the 88 turbo coupe which had  3.55 rear gears.  my pinto is still a 3.40 rear gear car and the speedo is off by 4-5 mph.
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Offline turbo74pinto

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Re: What bellhousing for 2.3/T5 pinto conversion?
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2010, 11:23:38 PM »
and like ohsix9 stated about the pos t9, my opinion is the same.  deal with cutting that 2 inches in your floorboard to clear your t5 shifter and notching your tranny crossmember for the t5 mount.  its well worth it.  its just my opinion but, i think the the t9 is a waste if you plan on putting power to it.  plus the aftermarket for the t5 is great.

bob
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Offline pintowagon77

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Re: What bellhousing for 2.3/T5 pinto conversion?
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2010, 09:22:45 AM »
I don't understand all the confusion people have... I have taken a 86 t bird and used the bellhousing, t-5, clutch and flywheel, it all worked. I just used a mustang II clutch cable because I didn't want to go hydraulic. That worked fine in a sand/ mud buggy, no slippage or binding with very heavy use.
Also my daily driver has a World Class t-5 out of a 92 mustang with a 89 bell housing. Honestly not sure what clutch or flywheel ended up working.  quality world class Borg Warner t-5 are a little harder to hook up but so few people have them I think they complicate them... Find a t-5 identification website and see what yours came out of. Not much help sorry, but i asked the same questions. http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2000/09/t5swap/
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Offline turbo74pinto

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Re: What bellhousing for 2.3/T5 pinto conversion?
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2010, 08:25:02 AM »
quality world class Borg Warner t-5 are a little harder to hook up but so few people have them I think they complicate themhttp://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2000/09/t5swap/

i dont understand, the world class and nonworld class run the same case.  differences are inside, not outside. im pretty sure all fords ran a world  class trans after 84.  the first link below is the t5 info i was talking about in a previous post.  the second is about the introduction of the world class t5

http://www.allfordmustangs.com/Detailed/349.shtml

http://www.moderndriveline.com/Technical_Bits/t5_history.htm

bob
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Offline pintowagon77

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Re: What bellhousing for 2.3/T5 pinto conversion?
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2010, 09:51:23 AM »
If anyone wants to call me about info (541 260 1413)... its hard to list every specific tid bit of info for different questions. I got a couple leads on two t-5 out of a 86 and a 88 t-bird, both 2.3 turbos. This the exact car i used and everything from the bellhousing to the driveline yoke worked. Also they are WC trannys.
Contact any time for info or parts.

Offline OhSix9

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Re: What bellhousing for 2.3/T5 pinto conversion?
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2010, 03:07:48 PM »
Bob,
didn't intend to cause any confusuion when i said they are all ten spline inputs.   was only refering to the common sources for 2.3 trans but wanted to mention the clutch differences between turbo and non.  V8 models have a different diameter input shaft stub that does not mate to the pilot bearing on the 4's  so without machining they wont work and why bother with a unit from a chebby.

to further complicate things, if my memory is correct i believe you can take the tail shaft of an s10 unit and swap it onto the reg tbid/fox body one.  this will relocate the shifter further back eliminating the need to cut the floor. ( did this on a v8 5 spd m2 back in the day).

world class is an internal only change relating to better syncros and more bearings instead of bushings etc etc. i thing the '84 reference is right but no doubt about any fox with aero headlights should be w/c

OhSix'
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Offline turbo74pinto

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Re: What bellhousing for 2.3/T5 pinto conversion?
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2010, 07:11:25 PM »
ohsix, 

i understood, but with so many variations of the t5 through several automakers, they are easy to confuse.  id hate to see someone pick up a 2wd jeep t5 and wonder why it wouldnt fit the ford bell.  some may think a t5 is a t5.

bob
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Offline turbo74pinto

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Re: What bellhousing for 2.3/T5 pinto conversion?
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2010, 09:26:37 AM »
ohsix,

ive heard the same about the tailshaft housings.  but, i think you have the apps backwards.  fox chassis cars have the shifter at the end of the tailshaft while the s10 is right behind the main case. 

this is the s10 box:



bob
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Offline flash041

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Re: What bellhousing for 2.3/T5 pinto conversion?
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2010, 01:00:28 PM »
seems to me if I was doing this conversion I would just get a t5 from a fox body Mustang with the 2.3.I know there are lots of them out there.Last year I swaped out my A4LD in my 93 Mustang 2.3 , for a T5. I found at least four cars in local junkyards.So I am sure they are the most plentiful car to get every thing from.I got the trans,bellhousing ,flywheel,clutch pedals and driveshaft for $250.
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Offline turbo74pinto

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Re: What bellhousing for 2.3/T5 pinto conversion?
« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2010, 07:23:11 PM »
that would be the easiest way, but lugnuts donor car is an 87 t bird which is a hydrolic clutch set up.

bob
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Offline lugnut

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Re: What bellhousing for 2.3/T5 pinto conversion?
« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2010, 12:41:16 AM »
Thanks to all:
I will look for a t-5 bell & trans from a fox Mustang 2.3 The trans in my donor T-bird grinds first gear sometimes, so I may as well pick up another tranny while I'm at it.
thx again!
mike

that would be the easiest way, but lugnuts donor car is an 87 t bird which is a hydrolic clutch set up.

bob


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